Members Terje Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 All the time we spend learning licks could instead be used for learning new melodies. Consider the following points... * People never ask you to play a cool lick, ever! They do however ask you if you know their favorite song. All the time. * When you are on stage you need to know tunes. Otherwise there will be nothing to support your cool licks. * The right song can save your ass, even the greatest lick in the world can't. * There are lots of seriously cool licks in those melodies... lots of great patterns... * If you want your solos to be more melodic one good idea could be to start by... learning lots of melodies! * Playing well known melodies by ear is a great way to train them (your ears I mean). Play a simple childrens' song, by ear, on one string, see how far you get before you mess up. * While learning tunes you are alos learning a lot about harmony and improving your technique.
Members Little Pete Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 Thats a good point, I agree with you on that one.My one recently was taking a cool bit from the game Final Fantasy 7.One area (cosmo canyon for the game lovers out there) had a wicked melody in Eminor so i got that down and it gives a good flow to a soloPersonally though i hate the word melody.Its the nu-metal/rock players who are completely anti solos and all they say is 'I hate solos, i only play melodies''We like a melodic breakdown in the song''I prefer to colour the song with melodies' :mad: Sorry that just seeems to get me riled up
Members Terje Posted December 9, 2003 Author Members Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Little Pete 'I hate solos, i only play melodies' There'd be nothing wrong with that statement if they actually did that.
Members Triton Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 People never ask you to play a cool lick, ever I don't know what planet you're from but I meet people all the time who ask me to play some cool licks or kids that wants me to show them cool licks. When you are on stage you need to know tunes. Otherwise there will be nothing to support your cool licks Most people who have come so far so they are on stage knows tunes but if you're in a rock band some cool licks sure can spice up the songs. Especially when entertaining people. The right song can save your ass, even the greatest lick in the world can't I don't agree. A great lick or solo can save a {censored}ty song. There are lots of seriously cool licks in those melodies... lots of great patterns Remember that we all have different taste.I hate melodies. I prefer to play cool licks. While learning tunes you are alos learning a lot about harmony and improving your technique It's worth to point out that many guitar players isn't interested in harmony or have no idea what it means.And regarding technique. I improve my technique by playing cool licks.
Members Terje Posted December 9, 2003 Author Members Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Triton I don't know what planet you're from but I meet people all the time who ask me to play some cool licks or kids that wants me to show them cool licks. Players are interested in cool licks, the rest of the audience, the vast majority, couldn't care less. The most common question asked to a musician is probably "so, can you play my favorite tune?". Most people who have come so far so they are on stage knows tunes but if you're in a rock band some cool licks sure can spice up the songs. Especially when entertaining people. I should point out that I'm talking to myself here. Being a blues player, who also plays a jazz standard now and then, the songs I play tend to sound the same and the solos are based around "cool blueslicks". I don't agree. A great lick or solo can save a {censored}ty song. Never happened. Remember that we all have different taste. I hate melodies. I prefer to play cool licks. So, what is a cool lick to you? To me it does have an elelment of melody. It's worth to point out that many guitar players isn't interested in harmony or have no idea what it means.And regarding technique. I improve my technique by playing cool licks. Well, you can do it playing melodies too. And there's really no contradiction here.
Members dongenaro Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 Interesting post Terje. I think the point you are trying to make is that a melody can stand alone as something unto itself. It is a complete self-contained unit that says something without the support of harmony. A complete statement in other words.While a lick, or in classical terms you might say a motive, needs the support of other elements in order to function. Think of a violinist or cellist. Their instruments can actually "sing" a melody without the aid of other instruments and be beautiful and entertaining doing so. I personally never practice a set of licks. When I solo I am listening and responding with all the tools of scales and harmony that I have at my disposal. That's not to say that muscle memory doesn't sometimes kick in and make me do things I've done before. This also reminds me of one of the reasons I became intersested in classical guitar. I wanted to be able to play a complete, self contained piece of music. If you don't sing or play in band, playing licks or strumming chords becomes rather boring.Bottom line, I see your point and tend to agree.
Members nylon rock Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 I also have to give the thumbs up on melodies as opposed to cool licks. When just noodling around on a nylon string classical with flatpick, where the 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings are thick nylon compared to thin and tinny steel, melodies come out very well with a purity that is rich and room filling. Cool licks lose a little of their coolness with nylon, but melodies, even if derived from cool licks, hold up extremely well. You can keep a melody going, while striking a chord here and there for context, and do this without stop for up to 20 minutes, and never run out of material. You learn a lot, too, doing this in that you can keep a melody going but drop into a "micro-mode" with a single "borrowed" note that adds a lot of texture and mood that would never be discovered by just manufacturing licks.
Members FacePuncher Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Terje All the time we spend learning licks could instead be used for learning new melodies. * If you want your solos to be more melodic one good idea could be to start by... learning lots of melodies!* Playing well known melodies by ear is a great way to train them (your ears I mean). Play a simple childrens' song, by ear, on one string, see how far you get before you mess up. * While learning tunes you are alos learning a lot about harmony and improving your technique. i agree for the most part, and heres where im stuck in my playing. do you have any helpfull ideas/exercise that will help someone develop their sense on melody and incorporate it into their playing?
Members arasmith Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Triton I don't know what planet you're from but I meet people all the time who ask me to play some cool licks or kids that wants me to show them cool licks.... Most people who have come so far so they are on stage knows tunes but if you're in a rock band some cool licks sure can spice up the songs. Especially when entertaining people....I don't agree. A great lick or solo can save a {censored}ty song.... Remember that we all have different taste.I hate melodies. I prefer to play cool licks.... It's worth to point out that many guitar players isn't interested in harmony or have no idea what it means.And regarding technique. I improve my technique by playing cool licks. A tad contrarian, are we? I am asked from time to time to add some tasty licks to a song, however it gets shut down if they have nothing to do with the melody.Perhaps a great solo can save a {censored}ty song for a listening audience composed completely of guitar players. Most listeners won't make it to the solo. To me (severely limited in speed-wanking ability) good licks and solos hearken to the melody. Often the core melody is a great way to begin and end an instrumental passage. All that said, I do have a fill fave. Ed King on Lynyrd Skynyrd - Second Helping rips some of the coolest phrase connectors in memory. Do I betray my age?
Members Triton Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 I'm just trying to create my own style. Everyone tries to play nice melodies. I do the opposite. I believe that if I always do the opposite of what everyone else does I will develop an original style.
Members arasmith Posted December 9, 2003 Members Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Triton I'm just trying to create my own style.Everyone tries to play nice melodies. I do the opposite.I believe that if I always do the opposite of what everyone else does I will develop an original style. Doing the opposite of everyone else strikes me as somewhat difficult. What about folks that play atonally (avoiding the underlying melody)? There are plenty of examples of non-melodic riff-masters. How do you do the opposite of all these people who share so little? Moreover, playing melodically does not imply that there is no originality. As an example, consider Adrian Belew playing on The Great Curve (Talking Heads - Remain in Light). Very original. Pretty strange. Very melodic (in it's own way). Particularly the ride-out solo. Wow, what was he THINKING?
Members Terje Posted December 10, 2003 Author Members Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by Triton I believe that if I always do the opposite of what everyone else does I will develop an original style. The problem, as already pointed out I guess, is that everyone else aren't doing the same thing. You can't do the opposite of what everyone else are doing. And BTW, it's not a good way to find your style since it means you're being controlled by what you think everyone else is doing instead of using your ears to play what you like. Which is what finding your own style is all about.
Members Terje Posted December 10, 2003 Author Members Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by FacePuncher do you have any helpfull ideas/exercise that will help someone develop their sense on melody and incorporate it into their playing? Actually it's very simple. Learn more melodies. Take a songbook, whatever songbook you can find that has good songs in it (meaning songs that you like) and learn them. Keep doing this and soon enough you'll have a better sense of melody and it will come out in your playing.
Members Ellaway Posted December 10, 2003 Members Posted December 10, 2003 I believe the key is in balancing both these After all, many classical melodies will rip your fingers off, they practically are licks. I do, however, instantly jump on any melodic licks I hear. I'm not talkin arpeggios, I'm talking those little bits you hear and jus say 'awesome'.
Members Auggie Doggie Posted December 10, 2003 Members Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by FacePuncher i agree for the most part, and heres where im stuck in my playing. do you have any helpfull ideas/exercise that will help someone develop their sense on melody and incorporate it into their playing? The concept of learning familiar melodies is a sound one. It's impossible to be melodic if you don't play melodies! The first link in my signature is a book of melodic studies with a technical focus...there are LOTS of various types of figurations in there...it may or may not be something you'd want to look into.
Members FacePuncher Posted December 10, 2003 Members Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by Auggie Doggie The concept of learning familiar melodies is a sound one. It's impossible to be melodic if you don't play melodies! The first link in my signature is a book of melodic studies with a technical focus...there are LOTS of various types of figurations in there...it may or may not be something you'd want to look into. i will definately be looking into that. thanks for the tip. i really need to work on that.
Members Little Dreamer Posted December 11, 2003 Members Posted December 11, 2003 Any good lick is just an extension of the melody. You go from here to there, and it's because of the melody that you're making such a journey in the first place; once you've exhausted all the purely melodic possibilities you reach for something more...there is the lick. An interesting and rather complex sort of embellishment.
Members Flanger Posted December 11, 2003 Members Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Little Dreamer Any good lick is just an extension of the melody. You go from here to there, and it's because of the melody that you're making such a journey in the first place; once you've exhausted all the purely melodic possibilities you reach for something more...there is the lick. An interesting and rather complex sort of embellishment. Once you've exhausted all the purely melodic possibilities, you should shut the hell up and let someone else solo before you start wanking.
Poparad Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Flanger Once you've exhausted all the purely melodic possibilities, you should shut the hell up and let someone else solo before you start wanking. Don't forget about rhythmic possibilities!
Members Flanger Posted December 11, 2003 Members Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Poparad Don't forget about rhythmic possibilities! IMO, rhythm is intrinsic to the melody. Notes without rhythm are just notes played one after the other.
Members Auggie Doggie Posted December 11, 2003 Members Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Flanger IMO, rhythm is intrinsic to the melody. Notes without rhythm are just notes played one after the other. I can't imagine playing notes without rhythm. Even 4 solid minutes of nothing but 16th notes can be FULL of rhythm, and a wide variety of rhythms at that! Accents, note length, implicit harmonic rhythm, contour/change of direction, etc., are all things that can turn a piece of perpetual motion into a work of rich, diverse rhythmic character. Of course, there are a lot of rhythmless automatons out there...
Members Little Dreamer Posted December 14, 2003 Members Posted December 14, 2003 Once you've exhausted all the purely melodic possibilities, you should shut the hell up and let someone else solo before you start wanking. "Wanking" is one of the more meaningless words in the English language - it basically refers to anything that the person using the word doesn't like. What I mean by purely melodic possibilities might be exemplified by the finale to Handel's Water Music. An interesting and complex sort of embelishment might be described by Beethoven's 5th Symphony.
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