Members BigBird Posted December 18, 2003 Members Posted December 18, 2003 My teacher was telling me something yesterday and compeltely lost me. Maybe yall can help. he said that prior to miles davis Kind of blue jazz chords where mainly voiced using thirds. 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and after kind of blue jazz musicians started voicing in 4ths I understand what 4th interval is, but I was also alwsy told to avoid playing the 4th of a scale when playing the chord because it won;t sound right,. the told me that when piano players voic ein thirds on a major chord, The left hand would paly the 1 and seven, and the right hand would add the extensions a third up from the 7th. Can someone explain this to me a little better. Also as an example, how would a pianist vice a major chord using third voicings and how would they paly it using 4th voicings? Thanks
Poparad Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 When people talk about voicing a chord in 4ths, they don't mean using the 4th scale degree over the chord. It's really nothing more than rearranging the normal notes on the chord so they lie in 4ths. Let's take Cmaj7. You'll have to change it a bit, so let's make it Cmaj6/9 for simplicity (R 3 5 6 9) Now, if you arrange it like this, ascending from the lowest pitch: C E A D G C You have all the notes of Cmaj6/9, but they're arranged in fourths (the exception being the interval between R 3 on the bottom) I chose Cmaj6/9 since it's easy to get that chord all in fourths. Another example, let's do Cmaj13(#11). This one does use the 4th scale degree (#11) but it's raised a half step to sound better than the natural 11th, which is what you mentioned by being told to avoid the 4th degree. It's important to note that even though the 4th scale degree is being used in this following voicing, it's no more important than any other chord tone. In other words, the fact there is the 4th scale degree does not make this a voicing in fourths. What does is the fact that all the chord tones are arranged so they're all fourths apart. So here's Cmaj13#11 in fourths: C E A D G C F# B I left the C on the bottom to reinforce the "C" as being the root. From the E through the B, they're all perfect fourths apart. Quartal harmony is inherently ambiguous. Depending on what the bassist plays, and the harmonic context, you can call most quartal voicings by a number of names. The first example, the Cmaj6/9, could be considered an Am11 chord if the bass player plays an A, or a D9sus if the bassist is on a D, or so on with any of the other notes being root. In other words, quartal voicings are all about what order you put the notes in, and not what notes you use.
Members BigBird Posted December 18, 2003 Author Members Posted December 18, 2003 Originally posted by Poparad When people talk about voicing a chord in 4ths, they don't mean using the 4th scale degree over the chord. It's really nothing more than rearranging the normal notes on the chord so they lie in 4ths. Let's take Cmaj7. You'll have to change it a bit, so let's make it Cmaj6/9 for simplicity (R 3 5 6 9) Now, if you arrange it like this, ascending from the lowest pitch: C E A D G C You have all the notes of Cmaj6/9, but they're arranged in fourths (the exception being the interval between R 3 on the bottom) I chose Cmaj6/9 since it's easy to get that chord all in fourths. Another example, let's do Cmaj13(#11). This one does use the 4th scale degree (#11) but it's raised a half step to sound better than the natural 11th, which is what you mentioned by being told to avoid the 4th degree. It's important to note that even though the 4th scale degree is being used in this following voicing, it's no more important than any other chord tone. In other words, the fact there is the 4th scale degree does not make this a voicing in fourths. What does is the fact that all the chord tones are arranged so they're all fourths apart. So here's Cmaj13#11 in fourths: C E A D G C F# B I left the C on the bottom to reinforce the "C" as being the root. From the E through the B, they're all perfect fourths apart. Quartal harmony is inherently ambiguous. Depending on what the bassist plays, and the harmonic context, you can call most quartal voicings by a number of names. The first example, the Cmaj6/9, could be considered an Am11 chord if the bass player plays an A, or a D9sus if the bassist is on a D, or so on with any of the other notes being root. In other words, quartal voicings are all about what order you put the notes in, and not what notes you use. That clears it up. Thanks a ton. Just to make a an easier exampel to see if I understand: C9 chord: C E G Bb D (Stacked in thirds) D G C Bb E (Stacked in 4ths) only in this example the C to Bb isn't a 4th but you have to break away at some point. Let me know if I'm correct and Thanks a ton for your help.
Poparad Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 Sounds like you've got it. As for the C9 example, you don't have to stick strickly to fourths. The voicing you gave is so predominantly in fourths that even though there's the C to Bb skip, it'll sound quartal anyway. Food for thought, though: C to Bb is a m7, which is the sum of two perfect fourths... It's almost like that "F" is there inbetween anyway. Oh, and another note, you don't have to use just perfect fourths. Augmented fourths are fine to.
Members BigBird Posted December 18, 2003 Author Members Posted December 18, 2003 Originally posted by Poparad Sounds like you've got it.As for the C9 example, you don't have to stick strickly to fourths. The voicing you gave is so predominantly in fourths that even though there's the C to Bb skip, it'll sound quartal anyway.Food for thought, though: C to Bb is a m7, which is the sum of two perfect fourths... It's almost like that "F" is there inbetween anyway.Oh, and another note, you don't have to use just perfect fourths. Augmented fourths are fine to. Cool thanks a lot!!!
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