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Intonation problem?


Deek

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Posted

OK, i got this problem with my brand new (few months old) Fender HWY 1 strat. It's on the G string. I tune it up exactly to the right pitch, and I intonate it perfectly using the 12th fret. But when I play a G#/Ab on the first fret of the G string, it is always sharp. maybe like 1/8 or 1/4 step. When i am doing solos or whatnot, it is not THAT big of a problem. But when i open an open E chord or any triad with the first 3 strings it is always a little bit sharp! It is driving me nuts!! How can i fix this problem?

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Posted

Deek,

You can't tune a guitar that it is in perfect tune all over the fretboard. It's a mechanical limitation of our instrument, and we have to live with it.

Check the setup of your guitar, especially the intonation at the 12th fret? (check a frettet note againt a harmonic at the 12th. They should be identical).

Also check if the tuss-rod setup fine, and your neck has the right relief. (I think an experienced fellow guitar player, or someone at a music shop can do this for you. I advice against doing it on your own).

If your setup is fine, then your intonation problems should be minimal.

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Posted

It's possible that the nut is too high, which would cause the strings to go excessively sharp when fretting a note on the lower frets. But that should affect at least several of the strings, not just one. Maybe the slot for the G isn't cut deep enough in the nut. Take a look at it, or take it in to a shop.

Don't just go hacking away at it though! If that looks to be the problem take it to a pro.

If it's just a little bit sharp, that's something you have to live with. But it sounds like your's is worse than that.

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Posted

I find most guitars are terrible when tuned using the 5th fret / next open string technique .... it's OK for open chords, but once you go up the neck things start to get out of tune ... unless you have a really good set up. The G / 3rd string is the worst ... especially around the second fret for some reason.

The way I tune: I tune the A string first then I tune the rest of the guitar from the 7th fret of the A / fifth string. I hit the harmonic ... from it I tune to the 1st / open E, the 2nd / fifth fret, the 3rd / 9th fret, the 4th / 2nd fret and the sixth 12th fret harmonic ... in other words I tune each string to the same note on the 5th string. Then I go through and check the octaves across the strings and up and down the neck. On most guitars I have to cheat somewhere .... depends where on the neck I'm playing and what I'm playing / doesn't matter so much for lead work ..... usually open strings are the biggest problem.

I don't think using a tuner is the best solution ... I have friends who only use a tuner and I notice they often can't tell when they're out of tune. A tuner is good on stage, the rest of the time it's better to use a tuning fork and keep your "ear" in good training ... I think it also helps player / singers sing on key.

I have an Epiphone E335 copy, (dot), .... it's a great guitar, sounds great, plays great .... couldn't get it in tune. The first problem was the nut sticking .... so I had a tech replace it with an Earvana nut .... it intonates really well now all the way up and down the neck. If you have a guitar you really like with intonation problems ... I'd try the Earvana route.

Hope this helps.

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Posted

Deek

As Edeltorus mentioned. The guitar is imperfect in its temperament (strings aren't the most reliable oscillators, esp when percussed), so it is somewhat a "live with it" phenomenon.
Now, HOW we live with it can vary.

As pop mentioned, the worst oscillator is the G-string as it's right on the cusp of being too big to be plain. If you are playing a "fat strat" (strings, say 11 or over) then go wound, you may want to go wound even with 10s

You may have noticed compensated nut systems with associated temperaments or just purely sweetened temperaments for guitar. This is an attempt t0o "spread the error" out so you don't collect the error in one place making a VERY 'out of tune' sound. Some higher-level tuners have special "sweetened temperaments" in-built to help automate the tempering...other people will use a strobe tuner so they can see the beats (this is why a strobe tuner has some benefite..you can actively 'temper' with them)...Still others will simply "tune a little off" or check tuning in more than one position to sort of "split the difference"

Beyond that, a modern player will often actively adjust intonation (ie "pull into tune"), many players develop this without even realizing it. Ever pick up a guitar that someone else was playing "in tune" only to find it was "out of tune" for you?


So, like the guys mentioned, I would

1) check for mechanical flaws with the instrument
2) switch to a wound 3rd
3) reset intonation
4) when tuning, tune in more than one position and/or check tuning with a variety of methods

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Posted

MorePaul ,

Ya, I was thinking about switching to a wound G string cause I am using either 11's or 10's. But the thing is... I play lots a bluesy stuff (texas style) with G string bends. I am worried that if I switch to a wound one, it wont be as easy to bend, and won't sound as good. Am i wrong?

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Posted

I think you'll get a good sound - I mean you are "fat stratting", it has more metal for a meatier sound and won't be as out of tune on you.

I assume you are using about a 19 or so as it is, so I'd expect 10-15% increase in tension on the string, if you are used to bending (esp if you bend with multiple finger on single stops) you should be able to handle it.
moving to a wound G really isn't that big a deal and shouldn't really require a change in set up (though you may want to set intonation a touch when you decide if it's for you)

I've had sets before (in the 11s range) that came with 2 strings (one wound ,one unwound) so you could choose. I can't remeber which brand did/does this

Anyone remember these?

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Posted

tune using the harmonic method... if your guitar is intonated properly, it will make all your notes around the 5th and 7th frets in perfect tune, and then below that towards the nut is SLIGHTLY off... but just enough to make a chorus effect when you play with other instruments, which is fine, barely noticable unless you have a crazy good ear...

I find its good for electric, since most of the time your riffs and things are a little higher up on the fret board, and your open chords will still sound good...

it was mentioned before tho, I just wanted to put another vote to that method.

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