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Ok, I'm confused regarding scales.


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Posted

As I have noone around where I live to take guitar lessons from, I have been teaching myself with a book/CD system, as well as any information I can find online. I do have some previous musical experience, but on other instruments.

 

None of my teachers for piano, organ, french horn or trumpet ever pushed the scales to the degree that I see them being discussed in relation to guitar playing. Sure I was taught the scales in what seemed a common progression between all instruments (C, F, G, Bb, etc, etc). I had never heard of modes until I started learning guitar.

 

I can read musical fairly well, however I'm still very confused about scales.

 

Do most people practice their scales 1 octave at a time, or do you travel the entire distance of the fretboard?

 

Is there any particular order in which to learn scales/modes, does it really matter? ie: should I learn C and all of it's modes or learn all of the major (ioninan) scales first?

 

I have a book which is specifically about scales and modes and it mentions 3 or 4 different fretboard visualization styles or systems for the scales. Should I learn them in all the various systems as well? The list Segovian Fingerings, 3 Notes per string concept, CAGED, and Zone System. I think the book system I have been following along with uses a 5 fret system. Atleast up to this point I havn't learnt any notes which don't fall within the first 5 frets, from low E to high A.

 

This may be an odd question, but why learn the scales? My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong. It is to learn which notes or steps are harmonious. So that if I can figure out what "key" (scale?) a song is written in, I would have the ability to join in and be harmonious?

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Posted
Originally posted by jstrudwick

Do most people practice their scales 1 octave at a time, or do you travel the entire distance of the fretboard?



It is more common to at least practice scales in two octaves. But you should really learn how to play each scale from the lowest to the highest note on your instrument. Gives you the most freedom.

Is there any particular order in which to learn scales/modes, does it really matter?



No, as long as you learn them all :)

Should I learn them in all the various systems as well?



Why not? All systems have their benefits and shortcomings. The more you learn the better.

So that if I can figure out what "key" (scale?) a song is written in, I would have the ability to join in and be harmonious?



Most of the time it works that way.

Posted

Originally posted by jstrudwick


None of my teachers for piano, organ, french horn or trumpet ever pushed the scales to the degree that I see them being discussed in relation to guitar playing. Sure I was taught the scales in what seemed a common progression between all instruments (C, F, G, Bb, etc, etc). I had never heard of modes until I started learning guitar.


Is there any particular order in which to learn scales/modes, does it really matter? ie: should I learn C and all of it's modes or learn all of the major (ioninan) scales first?

 

 

I usually practice them in the circle of fifths but you can learn them in anyway you want. I like to do it in the circle of fifths because then they are arranged by how many accidentals they have. For example, if you start with C, the next key going one direction in the cycle is F (1 flat), then Bb (2 flats), and Eb (3 flats), and so on. Starting on C again and going the other direction you go to G (1 sharp), D (2 sharps), and so on.

 

I just do that out of my own preference, but it's something to give a try if you want.

 

 

As for modes: don't even bother with them at all until you have the major scale down and truly understand it very well in all 12 keys.

 

Oddly enough, if you know the major scale well enough, you will understand modes fairly easily. Otherwise you'll just end up confusing yourself starting out with both the major scale and modes, or moving onto modes before you're solid enough on the major scale.

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Posted

I find it interesting that his other instrument teachers never focused on scales as much as guitar teachers do.

Why is that? Why do guitarists, or at least guitar teacher focus on scales so much?

Posted

Originally posted by PorridgeOfHate

I find it interesting that his other instrument teachers never focused on scales as much as guitar teachers do.


Why is that? Why do guitarists, or at least guitar teacher focus on scales so much?

 

 

I've taken lessons on trumpet and piano from multiple teachers, and they've stressed scales just as much, if not more as any guitar teacher I've had.

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Posted

Originally posted by Poparad



I've taken lessons on trumpet and piano from multiple teachers, and they've stressed scales just as much, if not more as any guitar teacher I've had.

 

 

O.K., I guess this guy's experience is not the norm then.

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Posted

Learning the scales was stressed, but in a much more gradual progression than I see often discussed here.

The material I see being given to beginners often contains many scales, and includes discussion of modes. This is what I did not experience in any of my other lessons.

Posted

Originally posted by jstrudwick

Learning the scales was stressed, but in a much more gradual progression than I see often discussed here.


The material I see being given to beginners often contains many scales, and includes discussion of modes. This is what I did not experience in any of my other lessons.

 

 

Perhaps the reason that they are included for beginner's material is because improvisation is much more important to the typical styles a guitar player would find themselves in.

 

For a horn player or a piano player (jazz aside), reading is usually stressed more, because even if you don't know F major by memory, if you can read the notes on the page fluently, you can get by.

 

Also, more classical musicians will be playing precomposed music written on paper, while guitarists (classical guitarists aside) will be doing more repetitive riffs and other material that isn't commonly notated.

 

I'm sure if you were taking classical guitar lessons from a classical guitar instructor, your experience would probably be more like that of a horn or piano student.

 

 

 

Also, let me comment that you shouldn't even bother to worry about modes or anything until you've studied the major scale for a while and are very comfortable and fluent in it. It's needlessly confusing to try to jump into something that is so tied in with the major scale without have a firm grasp on where it all is derived from.

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Posted

I thought that perhaps that was the reason as well, improvisation I mean. All the lessons I've taken before always focused on reading music, becoming proficient with a song, and then learning something new, whether it be another song or a song utilizing a new technique.

I often find guitar lessons in tablature and then have to transcribe them into standard notion so that I can play them easier. Although I have tried to spend some time getting used to tablature as well, I still prefer to have notes to read rather than tab.

Posted

Originally posted by jstrudwick

I thought that perhaps that was the reason as well, improvisation I mean. All the lessons I've taken before always focused on reading music, becoming proficient with a song, and then learning something new, whether it be another song or a song utilizing a new technique.


I often find guitar lessons in tablature and then have to transcribe them into standard notion so that I can play them easier. Although I have tried to spend some time getting used to tablature as well, I still prefer to have notes to read rather than tab.

 

 

In the long run, I think you're much better off learning guitar with standard notation. There are a lot of musical situations out there that you will have an advantage at knowing how to read, and also I think it makes understanding the fretboard easier.

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Posted
Originally posted by Poparad



Also, let me comment that you shouldn't even bother to worry about modes or anything until you've studied the major scale for a while and are very comfortable and fluent in it. It's needlessly confusing to try to jump into something that is so tied in with the major scale without have a firm grasp on where it all is derived from.


+1 :D

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