Members Broktun Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 I have been playing guitar for long time now, and can play just about everything. Tell me the key, show me the changes, and I am golden. EXCEPT I can not play a lick of lead, pun intended. I have tried learning the basic pentonic scale, say in E, but I end up playing the same pattern it seems. The only lead I have ever figured out was for Pearl Jam's Yellow Leadbetter. I do not know how I stumbled across it, because the song is in the Key of E, but the solo seems to be based on a pattern 3 frets (1.5 steps) lower (9th fret vs 12th fret). Any suggestions will be appreciated on how I can break out of this rut. Also, what would the relative minor of E be? Thanks Broktun
Members LanRover Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 Pick up the books "Fretboard Logic" and "Speed Mechanics for lead guitar". Those are killer for learning how to improvise and create solos. As for the relative minor of E, its 6 steps on the major scale up from E so E F# G# A B C# D# E
Members 335clone Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by Broktun I do not know how I stumbled across it, because the song is in the Key of E, but the solo seems to be based on a pattern 3 frets (1.5 steps) lower (9th fret vs 12th fret). Congradulations, you have discovered the Major pentatonic scale. It is allways 3 frets below the minor pent, same pattern. The relative minor of E is C#m. I'm not a great soloist, so look to others for specifics, but learn the relative minor and Major pents for each key. Mixing the notes from either the minor pent or relative minor pent with the Major pent should help with most classic rock songs. Duanne's solo on Stormy Monday is a classic example of mixing G minor and Major Pentatonics. You might also learn the blues scale, which is the same as the minor pent with the addition of the (b5) blue note. Em Blues scale:E,G,A, A#,B,D E-----0---3-B-----0---3-G-----0-23-D-----0-2--A-----012--E-----0---3-
Members Broktun Posted July 22, 2004 Author Members Posted July 22, 2004 Thanks all.335 clone:Is this right for the Key of E?Major:E=rootF#=2G#=3A=4B=5C#=6D#=7Pent minor is: Root, 3b, 4, 5, 7??E pent min:Root=E3b=G4=A5=B7=D#Relative minor C#C# pent major Root=C#3=F4=F#5=G#7=CAdd the two and we would have:E, F, F#, G, G#, A, B, C, D# Throw in the blue note for E,F,F#,G,G#, A, A#,B,C,D# Would that be right??Thanks
Members 335clone Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by Broktun Thanks all. 335 clone: Is this right for the Key of E? Major: E=root F#=2 G#=3 A=4 B=5 C#=6 D#=7 (yes) Pent minor is: Root, 3b, 4, 5, 7?? (no, b7) E pent min: Root=E 3b=G 4=A 5=B 7=D# (D) Relative minor C# C# pent major (no, relative minor ) Root=C# (m) 3=F (b3 E) 4=F# 5=G# 7=C (b7 B) Add the two and we would have: (E,F#,G,G#,A,B,C#,D) Throw in the blue note for E,F,F#,G,G#, A, A#,B,C,D# Would that be right?? (No ) Thanks (you're welcome)
Poparad Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by Broktun Pent minor is: Root, 3b, 4, 5, 7??E pent min:Root=E3b=G4=A5=B7=D# Minor pentatonic is Root, b3, 4, 5, and b7. So it would be E G A B D (rather than D#) However, it is more useful to find the Major pentatonic of a major scale, which is 1 2 3 5 6: E F# G# B C# Relative minor C#C# pent major Root=C#3=F4=F#5=G#7=C You can only take the relative minor of a major. There is no relative minor of a minor. You would be taking the relative minor of E major. From there, you build the pentatonic minor: C# E F# G# B A way to remember it is that the relative minor is the one that's a third below the relative major. Adding the two together actually ends up with the same scale: C#m pentatonic: C# E F# G# B C#E major pentatonic: E F# G# B C# E That is why they're called relatives; they're made of the same notes. As for the blue note, it's really just an extra note added between two that are a whole step apart. The most common is between 4 and 5 in the minor pentatonic, but you can add it to any two notes a whole step apart.
Members 335clone Posted July 23, 2004 Members Posted July 23, 2004 I think he was trying to combine the Major and minor pents as I suggested earlier, not the Major and relative minor.
Members slange316 Posted July 23, 2004 Members Posted July 23, 2004 Do you need to change the scale your using as the songs chords change? Take a song in C, 1-4-5 prog. To solo over that, does one need only to stay in the C (1) maj or min scale in any position to sound ok or should you be moving to the scale of 4th chord then scale of 5th cord and the changes happen? Iv'e noticed that some songs stay on one chord during the solo or seem to alternate between 2 chords for the solo. Is this to make it easier to solo? slange316
Members 335clone Posted July 23, 2004 Members Posted July 23, 2004 You can do either. Thousands of rock and blues songs stick to the minor pent of the songs key and sound just fine. Some notes work better than others over the IV and V. Chord scale (changing scales with each chord change) is a more complex approach, and is typical of jazz.
Poparad Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by 335clone I think he was trying to combine the Major and minor pents as I suggested earlier, not the Major and relative minor. He was combining E minor pentatonic with C# minor pentatonic, which really doesn't work, as they are from different keys.
Poparad Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by slange316 Do you need to change the scale your using as the songs chords change? Take a song in C, 1-4-5 prog. To solo over that, does one need only to stay in the C (1) maj or min scale in any position to sound ok or should you be moving to the scale of 4th chord then scale of 5th cord and the changes happen? If all the chords fit within one key, then you can stick to one scale for soloing. Most of the time progressions are diatonic (within the key) so you don't need to worry about changing scales. When they are no longer diatonic, then you have to start changing scales with the chords to fit them. Iv'e noticed that some songs stay on one chord during the solo or seem to alternate between 2 chords for the solo. Is this to make it easier to solo?slange316 The less chords or chord changes there are, the easier it will be to solo over. I guess it might be done for this reason.
Members 335clone Posted July 23, 2004 Members Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Poparad He was combining E minor pentatonic with C# minor pentatonic, which really doesn't work, as they are from different keys. But the C#m Pent is the same notes as the E Major Pent. E-F#-G#-B-C#C#-E-F#-G#-BRight?I had mentioned combining the Major and minor pents ala Duanne Allman and many others.Which would be:E-F#-G#-B-C# + E G A B D = E-F#-G-G#-A-B-C#-DMaybe I'm being too confusing?
Poparad Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by 335clone But the C#m Pent is the same notes as the E Major Pent. E-F#-G#-B-C# C#-E-F#-G#-B Right? I had mentioned combining the Major and minor pents ala Duanne Allman and many others. Which would be: E-F#-G#-B-C# + E G A B D = E-F#-G-G#-A-B-C#-D Maybe I'm being too confusing? No, that's all correct. He had E *minor* + C# minor, although each had a natural 7, so it yeilded a very odd result that was almost a chromatic scale.
Members Broktun Posted July 24, 2004 Author Members Posted July 24, 2004 It takes skills to get everybody confused
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