Members d0zerz Posted August 18, 2004 Members Posted August 18, 2004 I've seen this kind of descending run in a few songs I play but can't really figure it out in terms of scales/theory. Am - G - F - E Ignore the G as a chord and use it just as a note if it makes things easier, I'm more interested in the relationship between the Am - F - E. I don't know of a mode that has two major chords only a 1/2 step away from eachother. I think it sounds great... Nick Drake's smokin' too long and zeppelin's babe I'm gunna leave you (with an F# added) both use it and it sounds nice. And what about just Am - E? The stones use that in angie and it sounds great.
Poparad Posted August 18, 2004 Posted August 18, 2004 Am - E is a i - V in Am. When in a minor key, it's common to use chords from both the natural minor scale and the harmonic minor scale. Am - F - E is all in A harmonic minor. Am - G - F is all in A natural minor. Either at the F or E chords you could switch over to harmonic minor, and back to natural minor at the Am chord again.
Members simeon Posted August 19, 2004 Members Posted August 19, 2004 yeah, this is an example of "modal interchange" it's where you keep the root of the key the same - in this case, A, but you change the mode that you're using Am / G / F can be seen as all being in A aeolian but the E chord is the V in A harmonic minor another very popular example of modal interchange is this - Am / G / D/F# / F - the first three chords belong to A dorian and the F is chord VI in A aeolian (that's D over F# in the bass in bar 3) hope that helps sim
Members d0zerz Posted August 19, 2004 Author Members Posted August 19, 2004 Thanks guys! I've been in a bit of a minor rut -- playing almost exclusively stuff in natural minor keys. I forgot all about the other minor flavors. I figure I'll post this as it's a good summary of chords in the minor scales. http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~desmith/guitar/chords/keysminor.htm
Members Auggie Doggie Posted August 19, 2004 Members Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by d0zerz I've seen this kind of descending run in a few songs I play but can't really figure it out in terms of scales/theory. Am - G - F - E Ignore the G as a chord and use it just as a note if it makes things easier, I'm more interested in the relationship between the Am - F - E. I don't know of a mode that has two major chords only a 1/2 step away from eachother. In minor keys, you have more chord choices which are still considered 'diatonic' because of the various forms of the minor scale (pure, harmonic, and melodic). While the key signature indicates the following harmonies i-iidim-III-iv-v-VI-VII the natural minor scale lacks a dominant (a major triad built on the fifth degree), so in order to tonicize the 'i', we change the v to a V (in A minor, that means changing Em to E). And when you move from VI-V in a minor key, you get 2 major chords a semitone apart. (F-A-C and E-G#-B). The G# (and even the E major chord) needn't be used all the time, but you can expect to find it in cadences. If you NEVER used the G# (and the E major chord) in the key of A minor, which would be sticking to the natural minor, then you're playing A Aeolian, which is a minor-like mode, but not EXACTLY the same thing as a minor key.
Members d0zerz Posted August 20, 2004 Author Members Posted August 20, 2004 Originally posted by Auggie Doggie In minor keys, you have more chord choices which are still considered 'diatonic' because of the various forms of the minor scale (pure, harmonic, and melodic). While the key signature indicates the following harmoniesi-iidim-III-iv-v-VI-VIIthe natural minor scale lacks a dominant (a major triad built on the fifth degree), so in order to tonicize the 'i', we change the v to a V (in A minor, that means changing Em to E). And when you move from VI-V in a minor key, you get 2 major chords a semitone apart. (F-A-C and E-G#-B). The G# (and even the E major chord) needn't be used all the time, but you can expect to find it in cadences. If you NEVER used the G# (and the E major chord) in the key of A minor, which would be sticking to the natural minor, then you're playing A Aeolian, which is a minor-like mode, but not EXACTLY the same thing as a minor key. Man...the more I learn about this stuff the more complicated it becomes. When I'm playing blues penatonic licks I often like to go from b7-7-I (in e D-Eb-E). I guess this is an application of borrowing from the harmonic/melodic minor scales. Sounds cool as a passing note. I guess that makes sense considering how often I hear the B7 bent up into the tonic (going through the 7)
Members edeltorus Posted August 20, 2004 Members Posted August 20, 2004 d0zers, it will go away soon. The more you learn about it, the easier it becomes. But blues is a bad way to start when you apply theory. There's so much ambiguity in the blues that you can get confused really fast. Your 7th is a nice example it's not really borrowing chords. Let me explain why it works: Picture a blues in E: three chords: E7, A7 and B7. If you apply theory to it you could think of it this way: Over each of this chord you could play the mixolydian mode since it's a dominant seventh chord (and thinking strictly diatonic the mixolydian mode is the only choice of scale to play). E-mixolydian over E7, A-mixolydian over A7 B-mixolydian over B7. It does not make any difference if you play A-mixolydian over A7 or E-dorian over the A7 since both scales contain exactly the same notes. If you do the same for B mixolydian you get E-major. So: E-mixolydian over E7E-dorian over A7E-major over B7 The 7 is a note from the major scale. So it does sound good over the B7. This is just one approach to explain though. There are others as well. If you learn theory I suggest to apply it to pop or rock songs, blues is really a bit different since our ears accept a lot of weired and dissonant notes over dominant seventh chords. Hope I didn't confused you even more, Nils
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