Members Lurking Paul Posted September 28, 2004 Members Posted September 28, 2004 Many questions on this forum are like 'I have these chords, what scales can I play?'. Often the answers are simple: just consider the notes from the chords, find the tonic, and find the corresponding scale. Sometimes it has an unusual name, sometimes not. (Sometimes you need to choose different scales for different chord groups, but I'm ignoring that part now...) I understand all of that. But I do not completely understand the theory behind blues soloing. I can do it by experience, but I don't understand why it works.For example: sometimes the chords used in a blues progression are all major, like E7, A7 and B7. The bass player may even play major 3rds and/or 6ths. But once it's time for a guitar solo, the only scale that sounds natural is E pentatonic minor, with minor 3rds (and the occasional blue note, of course).While the standard method would tell you to play in E mixolydian, E dorian and E major, respectively. (Or equivalently E mixolydian, A mixolydian and B mixolydian.)Another example: Remedy by the Black Crows uses these chords:During the verse and the solo it's just Bb and C, but the rhythm guitars play some notes of the respective major scales, that is major 2nd, 4th and major 6th, but NO 7th (basically, they switch around between Bb and Eb triads, or C and F triads, and add a 2nd sometimes). When improvising rhythm guitar here, it's best to stick to this major scale w/o 7th, but when soloing, it's Bb minor pentatonic and C minor pentatonic! (Listen to the solo. I believe just two notes are an exception to this.)During the chorus the chords are Bb, Db, Ab, Eb, all major. But note that the base notes from the chords (what is the correct word?) are derived from the minor scale (of Bb). The natural way to play a solo over this is pentatonic minor again, adding a few chord notes sometimes, giving it a dorian flavor.Listen also to SRV's Lenny, for a beautiful example of going back and forth between major and minor scales.Now why does this work??! Why do rhythm guitars play in major and solo guitars in minor? (Sort of.) What's the theory behind this?Oh, and does anyone know other songs where this interesting phenomenon occurs? (Disclaimer: I apologize if I use unusual terminology, but I'm not used to discussing music theory in English.)
Members edeltorus Posted September 28, 2004 Members Posted September 28, 2004 I don't have much time, so all I can give is a quick reply for a long question The mixolydian, dorian, major for I, IV and V work very well over a blues progression. It just don't sound much like traditional blues anymore, it's more on the jazz-blues side.Lots of advanced blues players throw in a mixolydian run every once in a while.Why does the major and minor third work? That's a very special thing in the blues. The real blues-third is somewhere inbetween the minor and major third. It complements very nice with the other microtonal notes that we play. A slightly bended minor third comes close to the blues third. A slightly bended seventh is another nice microtone. There are a lot of them if you start to search. Nils
Members Lurking Paul Posted September 28, 2004 Author Members Posted September 28, 2004 Originally posted by edeltorus The mixolydian, dorian, major for I, IV and V work very well over a blues progression. It just don't sound much like traditional blues anymore, it's more on the jazz-blues side. That's true, it does not sound out of key to use these, but to me it often destroys the real blues feeling... It kind of becomes... intellectual blues or something... *shudders* About the microtones: that's a very interesting viewpoint. I will see if I can make sense of that, this evening with my guitar in hand.
Members Lurking Paul Posted September 28, 2004 Author Members Posted September 28, 2004 I'm listening to 'The sky is crying' by SRV right now. That's a perfect example of this kind of blues: the organ seems to play B, B7, E7 and F#7 (I think), and the bassline consists of the 1st, major 3rd, 5th, major 6th and minor 7th of every chord mainly. The guitar solo however is almost only B minor pentatonic. WITH many bends, some 'in-between' microtone bends... And playing mixolydian, dorian and major SURE doesn't work here...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted September 28, 2004 Members Posted September 28, 2004 Originally posted by Lurking Paul I'm listening to 'The sky is crying' by SRV right now. That's a perfect example of this kind of blues: the organ seems to play B, B7, E7 and F#7 (I think), and the bassline consists of the 1st, major 3rd, 5th, major 6th and minor 7th of every chord mainly. The guitar solo however is almost only B minor pentatonic. WITH many bends, some 'in-between' microtone bends...And playing mixolydian, dorian and major SURE doesn't work here... I am not familiar with the track specifically, but judging by your description... Is the bass line going (for example): B D# F# G# A G# F# D# ? In other words, is it just walking up and down that 1 3 5 6 7 pattern? If so, the lowest note of that figure is the root of the chord...the rest of the notes do not change the harmony. In other words, if the organ is playing a B7 chord, and the bass is playing any of those notes, it's still a B7 harmony, and should be treated as such. Remember, the note in the bass is not necessarily the root of the harmony! Also, one of the main characteristics of blues is the use of the minor third in the melody over a major third in the harmony (and also a flat 5th in the melody over a perfect 5th in the harmony). I personally hate that sound, but it's become the norm after decades of use...it's a stylistic device.
Poparad Posted September 28, 2004 Posted September 28, 2004 Here's a (hopefully) short and simple answer: The blues, unlike any other form of music, is built around a dominant 7th chord as it's tonic. All other types are based on major triads or major 7ths. The dominant 7th chord is a chord of tension and instability. Because of this, you can get away with playing many more 'wrong' or 'outside' notes and not necessarily sound wrong. This is why b3's and b5's and such sound good in the blues. Dissonance and tension are part of the basic chord's sound, as opposed to maj7 chords or min7 chords, where consonance is the basic idea on those chords.
Members Lurking Paul Posted September 28, 2004 Author Members Posted September 28, 2004 Thanks for the answers! Originally posted by Poparad The dominant 7th chord is a chord of tension and instability. Because of this, you can get away with playing many more 'wrong' or 'outside' notes and not necessarily sound wrong. This may very well be the essence...I remember jamming with a friend of mine and doing a little experiment: I asked him to play just one set of twelve bars, and I played a solo. It sounded just like a regular blues solo to both of us (not too many chromatic runs). He was surprised when I told him that I somehow managed to sneak in all twelve 'pitch classes' (sorry for using that word ) in those twelve bars! Only the b2 was a bit artificial maybe... Yes, you can get away with a lot over dominant 7ths. But my observation is that the 'good notes' (major 3 and major 6) actually sound wrong in a blues solo...Auggie Doggie: what do you mean by 'the rest of the notes (of the bassline) do not change the harmony'? I understand that the root does not change with every different bass note, but suppose there is no organ or rhythm guitar (it does happen), then the harmony is 'drawn' note by note by the bass guitar, isn't it? Anyway, blues is also not my favorite music, but whenever I play at a jam session, I'm asked to play it. So I started analyzing it... (Old guy in the corner shouts: "you don't analyze blues, silly boy! Real blues comes from the soul!")
Members Auggie Doggie Posted September 28, 2004 Members Posted September 28, 2004 Originally posted by Lurking Paul Auggie Doggie: what do you mean by 'the rest of the notes (of the bassline) do not change the harmony'? I understand that the root does not change with every different bass note, but suppose there is no organ or rhythm guitar (it does happen), then the harmony is 'drawn' note by note by the bass guitar, isn't it? Nope; even if you take away the organ and/or rhythm guitar, the bass line still outlines the same harmony. This is usually pretty easy to pick out when the bass is essentially playing arpeggios. Not every note is created equal...but it's REALLY complicated to try and explain that with words, but the ears usually do a good enough job of sorting it out. (It gets into structural functions, which entire books have been written about) Part of it is the notes themselves, and part of it is their rhythmic arrangement (strong vs weak beats, etc).
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