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Modern Rock guitar style? Help! (Radiohead, R.E.M., etc.?)


NewSc2

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Posted

Sorry for the long post, but I'm hoping somebody can help my guitar growth.

 

I've been checking out a lot of good books lately but most rock books and videos I've seen tend to focus or teach music I'm not wholly interested in, like EVH, John Petrucci (sp?), and generally stuff that was *in* 10-20 years ago (not to diss other guitarists here, I just don't listen to much of that).

 

I'm interested in books that gear more towards modern rock; that cover Radiohead, R.E.M, U2, pixies, Flaming Lips styles, and maybe even a touch of Nirvana, and Coldplay-style rock. I'm not too interested in learning a tab version of these artists (I've been practicing tabs online), but rather a book that analyzes this type of music.

 

If there isn't such a book out there, can you guys offer any advice? As a beginning guitarist looking to start a band and write some of my own songs, what should I be practicing and studying?

 

I've been trying to work with my guitar teacher on this, but he's a bit more into older styles of rock, and most of his students listen to Korn and Blink 182 and Green Day and I'm not all that interested in learning that stuff.

 

We've discussed this matter briefly and he did mention that a lot of modern rock utilizes a lot of sustaining open strings, or the G-Cadd9-Dsus4/D chord transition (3-2-0-0-3-3, x-3-2-0-3-3, x-x-0-2-3-3) and a lot of sus4 and sus2 chords. Is there anything else somebody can point out for me?

 

I've been taking lessons for about 4 months now, and although I feel my knowledge and ability with the guitar has grown significantly, I still feel lost. I was hoping maybe a more practical, style-approach to the guitar would help out, instead of learning through just scales and practicing technique.

Posted

I don't know of any books that analyze the style, but you actually could use those tab books for this purpose. Rather than sitting down and learning the music by tab, instead, look up a line to the staff notation and chord symbols and look at what's going on there. Make note of voicings commonly used between different bands and in different songs, common rhythms, whether or not countermelodies are used in 2nd and 3rd guitar parts, what the forms of the songs are, time signatures, and things of that nature.

 

The element of style is one that can be aided by a book, but essentially is dependant apon a lot of listening and learning of songs in that style. As you already listen to this music a lot, then it won't be as hard as a style you're not familiar with at all. Make certain to listen a bit more analytically to what's going on in the music.

 

Also, as guitarists, we tend to forget about the other instruments in the band when it comes to style. People always ask about 'what chords do I play' or 'what are some emo scales' when really it's the interaction of guitar, bass, drums, and any other instrument that create that sound. Funk music just isn't funky without the right bassline. Afro-cuban music just doesn't groove without an intense percussion section. Jazz doesn't swing without a bass player playing a walking bassline.

 

Hopefully that will be some food for thought to help you out in learning the style you want to play.

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Posted

Radiohead does have transcriptions for several of their albums. I know Amnesiac and Hail to the Thief are available. They have the Tab included along with the rest of the music. You might try looking these over, especially if you have a particular song in mind.

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Posted

I would say to spend time learning chord voiceings over scales. For example, a lot of what the edge plays is just a "part" of a chord and the actual progression is made my the bass guitar.

 

When I write a song, I often just use an acoustic playing open chords for my scratch track. Then I will add the electric voicings, other fills, and bass. Then I will get rid of the acoustic track.

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i'm self taught, but if there's one thing that's under-rated in music theory, it's ear training.

 

the search for all these books on how to play a certain bands style is mute and pointless. also, it's a good way to waste your money. think about it, once you learn how to play every single one of radioheads songs, in the end, what's that gonna do for you? nothing. you're still not gonna recognize their progressions.

 

what you have to do is learn how to hear intervals. once you can do that, you can break down the songs you wanna play. you can even break down solos. ear train my friend, ear train.

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Posted

also, you mentioned your teacher saying certain chords are popular. {censored} that, you can use regular major and minor chords to get the same feel. special chords just add flavor and spice to the chord, but if you're worried about song structure, i'd worry more about getting the intervals and progressions correct first, then move into chord theory.

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Posted

I disagree - you can't always get the proper feel of the song using just major and minor chords, for a number of reasons.

 

First off, there are progressions that used diminished or augmented chords that have a completely different feel (as opposed to, say, a sus4 chord that stays reminiscent of the major chord). Heck, even 7 chords don't sound anything like major or minor chords, and to discard the entire category would severely limit one as a musician.

 

Secondly, as you begin to analyze song structures, you will notice that from a short distance away, many songs appear identical. In other words, you will see the same sequence of chords and timing appear over and over again. However, what keeps things from getting boring and repetitive are the small nuances in each song. Therefore, there may be a situation where you _can_ technically play a mere major or minor chord, but it will lack the oomph, the pizazz, the je-ne-sais-what that the original song conveyed.

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Posted

I recently bought a book by Rikki Rooksby called "Chord Master"

 

He also has a book called "how to write songs on the guitar".

 

 

I think these books are pretty decent. There are some sections that teach some chords and different voicings and whatnot. You can use these chords for different genres and explains how they function harmonically.

 

 

I'm pretty sure they sell them at Barnes and Nobles and book stores so you can skim through them before you buy.

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Posted

 

Originally posted by acousticbilly

I disagree - you can't always get the proper feel of the song using just major and minor chords, for a number of reasons.


First off, there are progressions that used diminished or augmented chords that have a completely different feel (as opposed to, say, a sus4 chord that stays reminiscent of the major chord). Heck, even 7 chords don't sound anything like major or minor chords, and to discard the entire category would severely limit one as a musician.


Secondly, as you begin to analyze song structures, you will notice that from a short distance away, many songs appear identical. In other words, you will see the same sequence of chords and timing appear over and over again. However, what keeps things from getting boring and repetitive are the small nuances in each song. Therefore, there may be a situation where you _can_ technically play a mere major or minor chord, but it will lack the oomph, the pizazz, the je-ne-sais-what that the original song conveyed.

 

 

i agree it's not going to sound the same, but intervals are intervals. even if you're using sus4 chords, the interval between an Asus4 chord and a Dsus4 chord is the same interval as a an Amajor and Dmajor. My point is, when breaking down a song, it's best to break it down by intervals, then by chord voicings.

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Posted

 

Originally posted by violence jackof



i agree it's not going to sound the same, but intervals are intervals. even if you're using sus4 chords, the interval between an Asus4 chord and a Dsus4 chord is the same interval as a an Amajor and Dmajor. My point is, when breaking down a song, it's best to break it down by intervals, then by chord voicings.

 

 

 

Well, everyone has their own way to break down a song, and at the end of the day there is really no best way. But anyway, taking this back to the original thread topic - the OP was wondering about playing in a particular band's style. I think you are correct in saying that the chord structure of the song plays a huge role, but that's only part of the picture.

 

As an example, think about Radiohead's The Bends. There is an absolutely frightening amount of that album that can be played using the G, C, and D chords. The intervals between those chords will remain unchanged no matter how many times we look at them, so that part is easy. However, approximately none of the songs will sound right if you just play G, C, and D chords. Rather, the particular way in which the chords are altered is what gives each progression that distinctive Radiohead sound.

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Posted

alright, so bringing this back to the original thread.... the original poster's questions show that he's still a beginner. shows that he doesn't know much music theory. and in my opinion, one of the most overlooked things in learning how to play any instrument is ear training.

 

he's looking for a way to analyze his favorite bands. are you saying that he should learn all the different chords in order to better analyze his favorite bands? that's what i thought was important when i first started playing, and it got me no where in terms of breaking down a song or analyzing a band's style. it just got me more confused as to which chords went with which, and when to use certain chords or when not to use them.

 

but the reason why i'm stressing knowing your intervals and chord structure is because essentially, that is what gives you the underlying feel of a certain song.

 

another example of how learning chords {censored}ed with my musical growth is how i didn't even realize i could play the same song but in different keys. i didn't understand the relationships of chords/notes and how intervals worked.

 

anyway, my original point was that learning intervals will help you get the feel of the song, then once you get the feel of it, you can then focus on which chords to use to get the exact sound. and by diong that, he won't have to rely on books or anything like that. and also, he can even eventually break down solos with the help of ear training. how else could someone break down a solo if they didn't have a basic grasp of how notes sound next to each other?

 

either way, i dont' think any of this matters, the OP isn't even responding.

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But you wr originally saying that you could disrgard all chords xcpt major and minor chords. That's lik tlling somon to writ a paragraph without using th ltter 'E'. It may in som cass b possibl to do, but you will always notic that thr is somthing missing.

 

I do agree that learning intervals and training your ear are important, I just think other aspects are important too.

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Posted

 

Originally posted by acousticbilly




Well, everyone has their own way to break down a song, and at the end of the day there is really no best way. But anyway, taking this back to the original thread topic - the OP was wondering about playing in a particular band's style. I think you are correct in saying that the chord structure of the song plays a huge role, but that's only part of the picture.


As an example, think about Radiohead's
The Bends
. There is an absolutely frightening amount of that album that can be played using the G, C, and D chords. The intervals between those chords will remain unchanged no matter how many times we look at them, so that part is easy. However, approximately none of the songs will sound right if you just play G, C, and D chords. Rather, the particular way in which the chords are altered is what gives each progression that distinctive Radiohead sound.

 

Radiohead is the perfect example. I firmly believe that Creep never ever would have been popular if it had not been for the assault rifle "chunk" of a muted guitar. Think about it. That's not style or playability or anything. It's just a tone. A colour.

 

To me, that's what the modern thing was. It was guitarists who were really concerned with colour.

 

The other example is u2's All I want is you. That song could be played on an acoustic with three chords. Nothing more. But when Edge adds that clean delayed electric after the first chorus, it adds so much colour. The rest of the song is just different shapes of A and D going up the neck as the song intensifies. Then there is the solo which is just simply picking parts of an A an D chord. Then finally the song breaks with a huge A open chord and then feedback.

 

All that in six and a half minutes.

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Posted

i'm still here, and have been briefly following along. I know a decent amount of music theory with my piano background, but with guitar I guess I was looking for a breakdown of all the chords other than just major and minor chords.

 

I was workign with my teacher on this earlier, and he said like Vsus4 kind of leads into the I major chord (like Dsus4 leads into Gmaj well), as with dominant 7th chords too. sus2 kind of has a minor feel to it, and i see the Sus2 and Sus4 chord applied liberally to a lot of modern rock.

 

I was kind of looking for replies like that, but it's nice that you guys broke it down the way you did. Basically, i'm looking for help with writing songs, and I'm stuck with basic chords and I'd like to learn some chords that would be nice to throw into some of my basic songs, and a lot of the chords I've come across have a lot of sustaining open strings and I've found the same use of that in a lot of Radiohead and U2 songs (Airbag comes to mind). Maybe breaking down why these open sustaining strings work so well was closer to what I was looking for a discussion to.

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