Alternate picking out of ellbow, not your wrist? please help me...

[Damokles]

Hi

I've been working on speed(basically alternate picking) for the last 4 month and basically did excersises from john petruccis rock discipline and some dream theater solos. I advanced from picking 16th tripplets at 80bpm to somewhere about 110-130 depending on the excercise. but i think i did a great misstake:

When i cross a certain border somewhere between 95 and 100 bpm(at 16th tripplets = 6 notes per click in case i have the wrong expression) i no longer pick out of my wrist and no longer have this 100% controlled motion where i think about every move i do, but i rather start to swicth to "speed mode", what means i pick more out of my ellbow and "fly" more over the strings while hitting the strings instead of really picking one by one. I hardly see someone pick like that(except zakk wylde, it allways looks like his wrist is totally stiff and all of his motion comes from his ellbow) and i wonder if i do it horribly wrong or if it's okay to pick like that. I even tried to back the metronome down and redo my work, but no matter how long a play at low speed and concentrate on my wrist, as soon as i cross that border my picking changes the described way. As long as i don't have to change strings very often and walk like from first to sixth string only hitting three notes per string I have no big problems with clean picking but if i do an exercise like that it becomes sloppy. Might that come from my techinque or do i just have to practise more?I have no camera to record a clip of my playing, but i'm going to record some of my speed playing(just mp3) if that helps you to judge wether i should contionue like i do or sell my guitar because i can never get rid of that habit.

Any advice is really appreciated...

Thank you all!

 

Damokles

[soc_monki]

you can get rid of the habit...it may just take time and practice, and i mean a lot.

 

but thats what you have to do to get better. picking from the elbow is very inefficient and ultimately will be holding you back. a lot. so take the time and put it into using ONLY your wrist. youre overstepping your bounds...so slow down and stay SLOW until you can pick faster and faster and just use your wrist. otherwise, you will never get rid of the habit.

 

and Zakk does pick from the wrist...i can see why you think he doesnt though. when hes playing the fast pentatonic scales and moving from one string to another really quickly you kinda have to make a position shift, which means moving your forearm and it looks like youre moving your elbow to pick. but hes not.

 

anyways, hope that helps some...remember, stay slow until you can get faster with just your wrist! it may take time, but it will benefit you in the end, i promise!

[Fred5]

It's not as simple as if you pick from the

elbow it's wrong and if you pick from wrist

it's right.

 

When playing really fast, you're not supposed to think about every note as a single entity. A lick becomes more of one compound motion that often involves both

movements of the wrist, forearm and even right hand fingers to some extent.

 

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean

your doing anything terribly wrong.

[Mesa-Maniacal]

Someone once posted that Michael Angelo (Batio?) said that try tremalo picking. Whatever hand position you use for that is the one you use for fast picking. I found that it is good advice.

[Damokles]

Thank you guys for cheering me up, i was really down when i noticed that i seem to pick with my arm, because i practiced really hard the last few month and i was afraid it was all for nothing. I sat down the whole day yesterday and tried to find out how i can get rid of my problem. I noticed i allways had my wrist in mid air and not resting on the bridge so i tried to allways keep contact with the bridge and it seems to work better. My arm still moves slightly but it also does that when i pick really slow and 80% of the motion comes of the wrist. As long as i concentrate it seems to work and position shifting becomes much easier when i keep it like that. If anyone has some more hints like try resting your wrist here&there i'd appreciate it.

[nylon rock]

Definitely don't give up on your playing. Besides, if you're discouraged today, and were to stop for some time, it would only be a matter of time before you returned to trying again. Some people return to guitar after 10 years of being away, and put in double the effort.

 

The suffering you are going through right now, as a novice of sorts, is shaping your eventual style, whatever it will be. Years from now someone else as a novice may look at the way you do things and wonder how in the world you got to where you did, and how possibly could he learn to play like you.

 

Everyone does things different from one another. Just try to play music so that you keep your interest going. The technical aspects will work their way in when you have breakthroughs.

 

Everyone who has been playing a long, long time looks back on the uphill battle of learning with fondness. If it wasn't so difficult there wouldn't be as much comraderie amongst musicians. We're a select and privileged "band of brothers."

[soc_monki]

another tidbit...

 

if you start getting frustrated QUIT PLAYING! put the guitar down and walk away for a while, play a video game, or something to get your mind off of it.

 

why? because getting frustrated and angry will only increase tension. thats bad. you want to play with as little tension as possible.

 

and i agree with Nylon...im nowhere near where i want to be with my playing, yet im better than i was 6 months ago because i finally decided to take the gloves off and start practicing my ass off. i used to not play at all during the week, just on the weekend with my band...bad idea. then i started plunking around during the week...and now when my fiance is over, she plays video games for hours sometimes, and ill just sit in the room and play away...for hours. ive noticed a great improvement from this

 

and doing this makes me feel more connected to other musicians who truly love playing. every once in a while you run into the cocky guy who thinks hes so badass and only plays a few nirvana songs and maybe a metallica riff or two...then you can just shut them up by throwing out some sweep picking or fast tapping runs then they want to know how to play like you LOL

 

but stick with it. practice, practice, practice, and if something isnt working, analyze your technique and find out why. then correct it. in time you will be better for it.

[Deek]

I'm just wondering how my wrist should be positioned. I play jazz and I've talked to people that say the ONLY way to do it is to keep your wrist off the bridge. But other players say to keep it rested on the bridge. Whats the right way?

[soc_monki]

depends on what you are doing...

 

sometimes having it off the bridge is advantageous...sometimes having it on the bridge allows you to mute strings your not playing or ones you are...

 

so it really depends on whats comfortable and what you need to do...thats about all there is to it.

[Santuzzo]

Originally posted by soc_monki ...and now when my fiance is over, she plays video games for hours sometimes, and ill just sit in the room and play away...for hours. ive noticed a great improvement from this

 

Maybe I should get a playstation or X-box for my girlfriend

 

Just kiddin' .......

She might be reading this

[Santuzzo]

and now my serious reply :

 

I also pick from the elbow, I used to pick from the wrist, but I changed when I noticed that I could pick much faster using the elbow. (And I had been practicing really many years with the wrist only, just couldn't get it up to speed).

 

Take a look at Vinnie Moore : I have his 1st instructional video, and for the fast picking he is using his elbow !

 

So, I would not say this is right, and the other way is wrong ...

Try what works for you, but if you choose to pick from the wrist, be very careful to stay relaxed and NOT to tense up !

 

I hope this helps a bit !

 

Good luck !

 

Lars

[Tarv]

Originally posted by Deek I'm just wondering how my wrist should be positioned. I play jazz and I've talked to people that say the ONLY way to do it is to keep your wrist off the bridge. But other players say to keep it rested on the bridge. Whats the right way?

 

Al Di Meola rests his hand on the bridge.....

 

And encourages other players to do the same, I would listen to AL on this one..

[Damokles]

Thank you all for your comments, this thread should be named the "cheer you up thread for all novices/intermediates".

I recorded a short clip of me soloing today, with my slightly altered technique (wrist resting on the bridge, using less ellbow). The Sound of the guitar is horrible, but all i have is an epiphone les paul standard and my korg Multifx so please don't kill me for it. Any comments on the Clip(playing and sound wise, i mean how to improve it) are welcome

 

www.bahnhofsquatsch.online.de/solo130bpm.mp3

 

What gread about my "new(1 day old) technique" is, that after my dayly 2 hours practise, my arm doesn't feel like falling of anymore.