Members EleChick Posted July 23, 2005 Members Posted July 23, 2005 Is it possible to be able to play something even if it's only a 3 chord progression sound perfect, no mistakes every single time you play it? Even if you've played something 100s of times should you still be making a mistake? For me, Sometimes I play the thing perfectly then half of the time I don't and frankly, it's annoying. Are mistakes something that is corrected by time? do you just wake up one morning and manage to play a piece perfectly everytime from then on? does it take years of practice before one can play flawless every single time? as you can see I'm confused. Please help.
Members Alanfc Posted July 23, 2005 Members Posted July 23, 2005 I'm going through this a little bit too, I'm trying to expand and learn new things after 23 years of just wingin it..... and I know exactly what you're talking about... For me, half of guitar playing is athletic. Not jumping around, I mean, its based on repetition like weightlifting, running, skating. I know you've played the progression hundreds of times .. but at a certain point it will become natural I assure you.. I'm not a teacher. Sometimes when I'm learning new things I take an entire day off. There are muscles developing and changing in yur little fingies there y'know. Just like with weight training your muscles need time to recuperate. Guitar fretting isn't nearly as strenuous of course, but, you are doing something that is totally unnatural for the human hand. You've got millions of years of genes programmed to have your hands do =much= simpler activities. (grasping trees, making tools, etc.) You know what I mean. don't you dare give up, because at a certain point you (and your left hand) will get that Aha ! moment and you'll start learning everything in sight. Everyone's moment comes at different times. Some people give up before they experience it. Take a rest;)
Members ManiacManos Posted July 23, 2005 Members Posted July 23, 2005 I can assure you that EVERYBODY makes mistakes. It's the human factor... robots don't play in many bands! The major difference between a rookie and an expert is the time needed for making it through the false note. You must stop thinking about the note you just played, and focus on the notes to come. If you do that, your mistake will go almost unnoticed. The worst thing you can do is to stop playing or repeating the part. Listeners dont like that. On the other hand, during practice, that's the EXACT thing you must do. Repeat the difficult parts until they stop being the mistake-spots!
Members Deek Posted July 24, 2005 Members Posted July 24, 2005 Buy this book.http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EM&Category_Code= This book was basically written around the question that you are asking.
Members wrathfuldeity Posted July 24, 2005 Members Posted July 24, 2005 read some place in sports performance that it takes about 24000 repetitions to get to a point of neuromuscular programing to be able to do something reasonably well without having to thinking about it. And during those 24000 repetitions it is important to slow it down so that focused attention is on correct execution/accuracy of the move and then later the speed and agility will develope. I was taught to try really hard to do the thang (e.g. scale) three times in a row as perfect as possible, then when you do it move on to the next. "one can play flawless every single time? as you can see I'm confused"...IMO this is an unreasonable expectation. Mistakes happen...the issue is what do you do with mistakes...learn from them, appreciate, enjoy and laugh at them...how do you think evolution happens?
Members Cackalacky Posted July 24, 2005 Members Posted July 24, 2005 If you perform in front of people, that's worth innumerable repetitions.
Members rockon1202 Posted July 24, 2005 Members Posted July 24, 2005 Originally posted by EleChick Is it possible to be able to play something even if it's only a 3 chord progression sound perfect, no mistakes every single time you play it? Even if you've played something 100s of times should you still be making a mistake? For me, Sometimes I play the thing perfectly then half of the time I don't and frankly, it's annoying. Are mistakes something that is corrected by time? do you just wake up one morning and manage to play a piece perfectly everytime from then on? does it take years of practice before one can play flawless every single time? as you can see I'm confused. Please help. I feel your pain and struggle with the same {censored}.
Members EleChick Posted July 24, 2005 Author Members Posted July 24, 2005 Thanks for all the replies. I feel a bit better Originally posted by wrathfuldeity And during those 24000 repetitions it is important to slow it down so that focused attention is on correct execution/accuracy of the move and then later the speed and agility will develope. I was taught to try really hard to do the thang (e.g. scale) three times in a row as perfect as possible, then when you do it move on to the next. So do you mean let's say I'm learning a scale I should play it at a slow pace maybe 60 bpm 24000 times and the speed will develop on its own? you don't even have to practice speed?and what do you mean by playing it 3 times in a row perfect then move on the next? the next what? Are you basically saying that if I'm practicing a scale, I shouldn't stop practicing it untill I get it perfectly 3 times in a row for each practice session? sorry if I'm asking too many questions.
Poparad Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 Originally posted by EleChick Thanks for all the replies. I feel a bit better So do you mean let's say I'm learning a scale I should play it at a slow pace maybe 60 bpm 24000 times and the speed will develop on its own? you don't even have to practice speed? and what do you mean by playing it 3 times in a row perfect then move on the next? the next what? Are you basically saying that if I'm practicing a scale, I shouldn't stop practicing it untill I get it perfectly 3 times in a row for each practice session? sorry if I'm asking too many questions. He's basically saying that you can't play it accurately fast if you first don't learn to play things accurately slowly.Take something that you are having trouble with, and practice it at a very slow tempo so you have time to think about everything you're doing. Practice it until you routinely get it to your levels of perfection, then move on to a faster tempo and repeat.
Members social Posted July 24, 2005 Members Posted July 24, 2005 When learning something new, I begin playing it almost painfully slow. Playing basically in super slow motion lets you watch your fingers for things you could do better (i.e. well if I left my finger on the second fret right after this note it would be much more effecient). Play painfully slow and only up the speed when you can and do play it perfect slowly. It makes progress slow, but for me at least the end results tend to be better. Best of luck to you
Members wrathfuldeity Posted July 25, 2005 Members Posted July 25, 2005 elechick, I agree with social and poparad; focus attention on the accuracy and the natural outcome will be the development of speed. Then one day, as alanfc noted, it will happen naturally; IMO that day occures sooner with this disciplined approach. Doing something three times as perfect as possible is more of a neuromuscular programming thing...1st time-wow i did it, 2nd time-wow this is cool and 3rd time is for cementing or hardwiring it into your neuromuscular pathways...then just move on the the next scale or task for that practice session. Then at the following practice session start with what was going well last time; do it 3 times as perfect as possible...thus continuing to hardware the neuromuscular pathway/memory (you're then building on your success while you are warming up and before moving on to your more challenging tasks...because it is hard to start with the more challenging tasks while you're cold and it can then become discouraging).
Members nylon rock Posted July 25, 2005 Members Posted July 25, 2005 For each sitting of playing guitar, right out of the blocks I do not have the coordination I'd like, and so I make mistakes. Or maybe my mind just isn't quite focused enough. Whatever. I've found that if after twenty minutes I then take a break, when I return I am much better, and also refreshed to give it a go again. I play for myself, not an audience, and so mistakes don't really bother me. But I do strive for perfection, to start something that is very loose in structure, and see it through to the finish, where I would then think finish, or end, and not hit another note. When I've done a very good effort with a concept, I know it, and I'm very content with what I've just created. Really never the same creation twice. Always something is different. But there is the "skeleton" to build on, and you do want to get that perfect. Otherwise your focus will be a little off, a little two loose, with too much distraction. Maybe all you should concern yourself with is the over all picture. An intro to launch you, then the "piece" as best you can manage, and an end at the end, to add some sort of florish that pronounces the "piece" as being complete and self contained, when there is nothing more you feel like adding. Of the ideas that you work on to establish your repetoire, it is desireable to have each thing be somewhat unique, that adds a different flavor and interest, which is why you even bothered with it in the first place. All that you are after with this sort of approach is to convey that "flavor," which cannot be pin-pointed, and which defies definition, but which has its own feeling, and you always recognize it when you hear it anew. Then perfection doesn't really apply, because whatever you do is a reflection of the way you feel at the time, and music becomes art at that point. Sometimes you are very "on," sometimes not. But what results still imparts some level of the essence you intended.
Members red|dragon Posted July 26, 2005 Members Posted July 26, 2005 The difference between professionals and amatures is that professionals cover up their mistakes better.
Members EleChick Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Posted July 27, 2005 ^lolthanks for all the replies. I feel much better.
Members Li Shenron Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 I have transcribed Steve Howe's "Mood for a day" (from Yes album "Fragile") at least 7 years ago and after having played it no less than 300 times, I still almost always make mistakes.If you are making mistakes on different points every time, be sure that they will be less and less given time, it's very normal. Professionals play their music every day, 8 hours per day (often twice as much), and they may play a song thousands times a year.If you are always mistaking at the same point then it's more serious, and you have two choices. The first is to figure out why, take a whole evening analyzing what's wrong and how to overcome it, then practice on that near to the point of sickness until you get it right. The second is to call it "your style"
Members buddastrat Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 This is a great thread. It was already said that we are human. Mistakes are always gonna be there. Watch any sporting event and sometimes even the simplest routines end up as mistakes. You think, "how can that guy get the millions for that!"But we are human. I don't think I've ever listened to any guitar player where you won't hear mistakes or unintentional things. Live anyhow. The best thing you can do is make the mistakes musical. Like Eddie Van Halen did. He'd fall down the steps and land on his feet. It was uncanny. Same with Hendrix. All his stuff was pretty sloppy but it became part of his style and he made it work so well. It's all in how you present it.But those were more improvisational type players. If you play a piece totally verbatim, like classical, you are sure to mess up here and there. You can train yourself to as machinelike as you can by monitoring diet, practice, routine, sleep, calendar moons, etc.. but if you expect perfection everytime, you are in for disappointment. The guitar itself is not perfect and cannot even be tuned perfect. Forget about it and have fun!
Members soc_monki Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 hell, even Steve Vai is a human...he admits that (although as he also said, considering some of the playing on Reflections, i think he may be part alien...) he said that when you get on stage, the guitar changes...intonation, action, sound is affected (amount of people and acoustics of environment) so you really cant be picky and you just have to play. ive basically taken that to heart...sure i like my sound the way it is, but if it changes there isnt really anything i can do but just play. as for mistakes...yes i make loads of them. im still working on my improv. skills, and when i do improvise and try to go for something i havent really tried to before, i mostly screw up, but occasionally hit the mark and pull something completely messed up out of my arse and its amazing... it just takes practice. there are nights when i sit around noodling, and other where i really pay attention to my technique and play really slowly and cleanly...im still not that fast, but im getting much more accurate and clean. speed will come, just not as fast as ive wanted it to. just keep practicing, if youre making mistakes, find out why and figure out a solution. itll make you a better player in the end!
Members Flanger Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 Even if you make mistakes, or are slow, during the switches of a 3 chord song, remember that you always have percussive muting to give you some cushion. THAT goes a LONG WAY. Use it when you need it, or even when you don't, for effect.
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