Members Bajazz Posted October 25, 2005 Members Posted October 25, 2005 to doing things the way I did when I started guitar. As Bryan Adams said: "Played it 'till my fingers bleed" It might be a bit difficult, as being a family father having daytime job and gigs to support my family. This is the reason for me lately structuring my time, spending 10 minutes on this and 5 minutes on this etc... It's not working well. I can have a strict scheme and stick to it but it simply doesn't produce results other than maintain my poor technique, that is: keeping it from suck. But improvement? No! I remember 18 years ago, I decided to learn the intro to "Sweet child'o'mine" cause it was death cool. I knew like 2-3 chords, some fingerpicking but no scales and no solo techniqe. It was like trying to drive a ariplane with a scooter license (more like no license). I think some of my friends had told me laughing how I never would play like Slash, and asked me to play "Tom Dooley" one more time... That day I went into my room after dinner and sat down with my guitar and cassette player and rewinded and played until I nailed that f*cking intro. I opened the door with a smile on my face and the guitar in my hand to show the others what I could do. Problem I had been sitting for over 8 hours and they all had gone to bed. No food, no breaks, just 8 hours continous playing guitar. Later I decided to stretch my techniqe and found Kee Marcello's "Flight of the bumble bee" to be a fine workout. I think I reached about half speed when I finally gave up. Since then I got more structured and less A-ha's. Today there's no sparkle in my eyes when I practice, it's mostly "Need to keep it up and to learn that intro for the new song in my repertoire". As Jamie Andreas would say: Horisontal development, but no vertical improvement. And yes: I tried a lot of methods and ways to get inspired. Some are fun but without much results. Others are boring without much results. I tried all the recommendations and methods on this forum, but for me there ain't much to gain. Lot's of new things to learn, but no real improvements for me as a guitarist. The biggest overcoming is picking technique. Relaxing my body and playing perfect very slowly hasn't helped being able to play the bumble bee. Yes, I'm still at 100 bpm as I was 18 years ago. So now I'm gonne get back to basics. No more staring at my perfect small pick movement and keeping the metronome at 40 bpm! I'm gonna rip it up and see some blood sweat and tears! I won't rest until I can shred! So long!
Members Santuzzo Posted October 25, 2005 Members Posted October 25, 2005 Man, I can completely understand your situation. I feel a bit the same, I think I should practice more, but my time is very limited, eventhough with regard to time my situation might be somewhat easier having no kids than yours. Like you I also sometimes think back to when I was say 10 - 15 years younger and I had so mucht time for practicing .... many things have changed in the past 10 years .... I have a job, a g/f, a regular 'life' if I may say so, and all of that is, of course, great, but not always easy for being a musician who wants and needs to practice and play. I try hard to set aside a certain amount if time everyday for practicing .... It is difficult, sometimes I only sleep 5-6 hours a night, because I have to do most of my practicing at night (or in the morning before work). Keep us posted on how you manage your time !!! Great post, Bajazz ! I also feel like, I wont rest until I am able to SHRED !!! Lars
Members mfergel Posted October 25, 2005 Members Posted October 25, 2005 Man, you just described my current situation to a "T". It sucks in that during college, I had lessons once a week for several years (music major). Played in a band and several few combos. Even then, my chops were nothing to write home about, but things have gotten worse because I find very little time to play and when I do, I really don't want to spend 1 hour practicing scales. They are great and all, but I need to learn some songs as well. I live to play music, not practice scales. Please let me know how things work out for you as I could certainly use some direction as well.
Members MrSteed Posted October 25, 2005 Members Posted October 25, 2005 Well, I understand your pain. I stopped playing entirely for many years and started up againa couple of years ago. I guess my attitude has changed this time around. For me now,it's not really all about the music. But rather setting challengesfor myself and trying to overcome them. Plus a good deal ofpatience and faith. Now, I take a really good look at the way I play and where it'slacking I try and figure out why. It might be that I'll need tocompletely rip apart what I was doing and start all over again.I also look at the what I'm doing in minute detail -- I might takea simple 4-3-2-1 pulloff exercise, or picking exercise, or whatever-- and work on it for weeks. Sometimes there's not much progress it seems. Then, I'll move on to something else, andwhen I come back to it ... wow. It got easier. That's the waythe brain works. Some things just have to soak for a while inthe background. When you overcome a difficulty and finally start to get it, it'sa great feeling! Even if it's just work on some dorky littleexercise. And it's from those little victories, that I actuallylike to practice scales and stuff now. Plus, it all feeds intoactually playing musically better which is also cool! Keep in mind, it's not a race. The only thing you really need toprove is to yourself. Since I've taken this approach I can seeimprovements on almost a daily basis. Plus, I don't really worryall that much about speed. There's things I can play now, that Icouldn't just a couple months ago. I figure the speed will get here when it gets here.
Members mfergel Posted October 25, 2005 Members Posted October 25, 2005 Originally posted by MrSteed Keep in mind, it's not a race. The only thing you really need toprove is to yourself. Since I've taken this approach I can seeimprovements on almost a daily basis. Plus, I don't really worryall that much about speed. There's things I can play now, that Icouldn't just a couple months ago. I figure the speed will get here when it gets here. Yeah, you're probably right. I just recently signed up with the Line 6 Guitarport and have practicing with some of the stuff there. Right now, I'm trying to learn the solos for ZZTop's "La Grange". Nothing truly difficult and at one time, I would have had no trouble playing it, but playing it at the proper speed right now isn't quite happening but I can see it getting a little bit faster each time I play it. Plus, I've been working on some stuff I wouldn't normally do, like Bret Mason, Jerry Reed and Chet Atkins. That chicken pickin' stuff is a bitch to do as it really forces you to keep your pick movement to a minimum since picking too much moves your hand out of position for using your fingers. I know I do still need to work on my scales again so I can get some of that theory back under my belt and relearn some of the fretboard mapping.
Members Santuzzo Posted February 27, 2007 Members Posted February 27, 2007 Guys, how is the practicing going? This thread is more thna one year old now, but how did you manage witrh your practicing the past year(s)? I personally still feel like I need more time for practicing, and often I don't sleep enough because I practice until late at night after I have come home from work ....
Members mfergel Posted February 27, 2007 Members Posted February 27, 2007 I still don't practice enough. I've joined a band since I posted over a year ago, so at least I've learned new songs, but I still don't think my playing is anywhere near as good as it used to be. I'm actually sitting and reading a book entitled "The Art of Practicing" by Madeline Bruser. I've only read a few chapters so far. Some good advice so far. Not anything that is new I guess, but she really talks about the importance of being relaxed and getting rid of tension when practicing. She also talks about changing the mindset many of us have towards practicing. I started playing trumpet in 6th grade and ever since, I've had that practice is work. I really need to break out of that.
Members gennation Posted February 27, 2007 Members Posted February 27, 2007 I just spent the whole last year doing all the things I should and making time to play. I've learn a lot, and progressed much. I'm an advocate of stepping back taking some time now knowing it'll last you forever.
Members Jeremy3 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Posted February 27, 2007 I've only been playign for 3 and a half years, and I have experienced some points where I just wanted to give up. I simply wasn't seeing improvement. I kept on trying though, and it feels great when you finally do notice improvment, even if it's just improving the speed at which I can play a simple chromatic exericse. I remember I was stuck at 120 BPM for many weeks, but then I got up to 126, then 132, then 138, then 144, which is the point I'm at now. I wish that I had practiced more when I first started. During my first half year I only played 15 minutes a day, thanI brought it up to 30 minutes. After playing for about a year, I started playing for an hour a day, which seemed huge to me. At this point in time, I practice 3-5 hours a day, which I'm happy with at the moment. The best way to improve is to practice every day, rather than practicing 8 hours a day for a week, and then getting burned out and barely touching your guitar for another week.
Members Santuzzo Posted February 27, 2007 Members Posted February 27, 2007 As much as I would love to make more time for playing and practicing, the problem is, I would have to give up a social life which I actually already barely have anyway. I keep having arguments with my g/f about the time I spend on practicing and about me not having enough time for her .... it is not so easy .... hardly anyone will have understanding for this. I try to avoid not practicing for more than one day in a row, and even not practicing for one day is something I'd rather not have, but sometimes I can't avoid days away from the guitar. Do you guys have these kind of problems at all? How do you manage?
Members gennation Posted February 28, 2007 Members Posted February 28, 2007 Do you guys have these kind of problems at all? How do you manage? I have 4 kids, a wife who works out of the house on the weekends, we keep to ourselves and keep the schedule as free as possible. So we are home a lot, we're both in our 40's and we love it this way!!! Out in the country, dont' know a whole lot of people where we live, so I do have a lot of uninterrupted time, especially on the weekends, to practice.
Members Santuzzo Posted February 28, 2007 Members Posted February 28, 2007 I have 4 kids, a wife who works out of the house on the weekends, we keep to ourselves and keep the schedule as free as possible. So we are home a lot, we're both in our 40's and we love it this way!!! Out in the country, dont' know a whole lot of people where we live, so I do have a lot of uninterrupted time, especially on the weekends, to practice. Cool ! This sounds really good ! So, no arguing with your wife about you spending too much time on the guitar? Lucky you !
Members Knottyhed Posted February 28, 2007 Members Posted February 28, 2007 Practicing's a funny thing, I always find that the more I learn and improve the more faults I notice in my playing that I didn't notice before The goal posts are always moving. Time wise I get more of my practicing done on weekends and usually manage a couple of hours week nights. Seems to leave just enough time to keep my girlfriend happy too, but we have argued over how much time I spend practicing guitar etc and how much noise i generate! (We live together). If I'm hardly around for a week because of band commitments/practicing I'll make a point of taking her out for dinner or something.
Members Knottyhed Posted February 28, 2007 Members Posted February 28, 2007 I think the reason why people don't improve is because they don't make a distinction between playing guitar and practicing it (I know I didn't used to see the difference). If you just noodle with no direction you won't improve. Similarly, if you just learn new songs that don't actually challenge your existing technique(s) you won't improve. So long as you set goals (and stick to them) to give your practice time some focus and direction you can't fail to improve.
Members wrathfuldeity Posted February 28, 2007 Members Posted February 28, 2007 I generally have the bad habit of daily noodling for a hour or two instead of actually practicing which I'm trying to do, i.e., at least two-15 mins of focused study of actually learning something new and challenging my technique. Santuzzo, its not arguing...its putting it into perspective with the Miss. I tell the wife and kids...you guys like to read, talk on the phone, watch tv and surf the web...I like to play the geetar. And remind the Mrs. that I'm not out chasing skirts, driving fast cars or drinking beers in my midlife crisis...but actually in the basement and she can come down and visit me anytime. Bijazz, this helped me with developing my right hand picking to a whole new level. www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-finger_tech.html
Members Li Shenron Posted February 28, 2007 Members Posted February 28, 2007 I think that most problems and barriers that we have when playing the guitar are of psychological nature. Things to ponder about every now and then: - sometimes our mind is stuck with achievements, we want goals NOW! we spend more time thinking about the goals than working towards them, more time planning practice than DO it. - we're too perfectionists. We think that we MUST play perfectly otherwise we're not worth being called guitarists. But maybe we should just accept that we'll always be imperfect. We can always get better, we'll never be perfect, let's get over it - we are obsessed with the amount of practice, it never feels enough. Probably the quality of practice is more important, but anyway we always feel that it is insufficient. Do we have the same feeling with our profession (for those who aren't professional musician)? With our school? I don't know you guys, but while I always want to get better at my job, I certainly don't want to reduce sleep or family time for it! - we are obessed with variety of practice, just because someone told us that we must study country even when we want to play heavy metal, or that we must learn theory even if we only want to play covers. It's like telling a dentist that he must study cardiology to "round up" his medical culture - we are obsessed with structured practice: some organization always help, but some care more about the organization than the actual practice... a schedule so tight that require you to keep an eye on the clock (or put alarms!) IMO only make you more anxious and less focused -> an organized plan is there to serve you, not you to serve the plan: there are natural times which are more important than the clock
Members mercury2 Posted February 28, 2007 Members Posted February 28, 2007 wow, can relate to almost every post in this thread!! my problem is not practicing properly too, I find I make more progress when I learn a new song (difficult one) than anything elsealthough I think that's just cos you have something to show for it... (the new song) no doubt the time I spend doing exercises etc all help, I just dont see the result straight away so don't spend any long periods on them like I would with a song/solo
Members Knottyhed Posted March 1, 2007 Members Posted March 1, 2007 www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-finger_tech.html I've read this before, and watched George Benson's picking technique on YouTube to understand what the article is on about. To me the claim that you play 20 notes a second, completely relaxed using that technique is ludicrous... According to my maths that'd be 16th notes at 300 bpm! Besides it doesn't even look particularly efficient, unlike say MAB's technique. From what I've seen really fast pickers don't use that technique and from what i've seen of George Benson, whilst his playing is very tasty, it isn't particularly fast?! In fact I'm sure I read Shawn Lane saying something along the lines of you need a certain amount of tension to pick fast... (although i think he also said you should try and develop a 'relaxed tension' whatever that means! )
Members Dubb Posted March 1, 2007 Members Posted March 1, 2007 From what I've seen really fast pickers don't use that technique and from what i've seen of George Benson, whilst his playing is very tasty, it isn't particularly fast?!Make no mistake... George can rip that Gibson of his a new asshole when he feels so inclined... I can testify. Benson is CRAZY good. I guess I should contribute something else to the thread, so uh... yeah, sounds like a good plan Bajazz... what was the question again?
Members Dimebag666 Posted March 2, 2007 Members Posted March 2, 2007 Not much i can add but for flight of the bumblebee something i found that really helped was starting the metronome at say 40 or 60 everyday i practiced it and just going up and up until i could go up no more. After about a month i could play it quite comfortably at 200bpm but that last 20 is still full of slop.
Members Santuzzo Posted March 11, 2007 Members Posted March 11, 2007 .... From what I've seen really fast pickers don't use that technique and from what i've seen of George Benson, whilst his playing is very tasty, it isn't particularly fast?!.... Check this and think again ..... Benson's chops are amazing !
Members CBLjazz Posted March 11, 2007 Members Posted March 11, 2007 What has revolutionized my ability to practice has been taking my guitar to work. It was a little strange at first- people looking at you funny like, "why do YOU have a guitar?!!!!!!!!!!"But I now see that I have so much free time at work, down time where I don't have anything to do. In addition to this free time I cut my lunch in 1/2 and instead of socializing I practice for half of my lunch. I'm able to be so much more consistent now. That is the key to success.
Members Dubb Posted March 11, 2007 Members Posted March 11, 2007 lol, how do you explain that one to your boss when he comes by
Members Li Shenron Posted March 11, 2007 Members Posted March 11, 2007 lol, how do you explain that one to your boss when he comes by Maybe HE is the boss
Members Virgman Posted March 15, 2007 Members Posted March 15, 2007 I used to be a low handicap golfer. Here's how golf works: To go from total hacker to 100 shooter is not too hard. A few lessons. To go from 100 to 90's is not too hard. A few more lessons. Play once a week. To go from 90's to 80's is a little more difficult. A better short game. Play a couple times a week. Practice for a few hours. You're spending some cash. To go from 80's to 70's... Well, now were talking some real work. Play 4-6 times a week. Hits balls on those days, practice around the green for a few hours. It's getting to be quite an expensive hobby. To get to scratch, low 70's or even par or better.. Brutal. You have to live it. We're talking pro commitment. Forget your family. The better you get the harder it gets to make improvements. The last 5-10% is killer. However, that last 5% is the difference. It's what separates the men from the boys as they say. It's all those clangers you hit now and then. The ball hit out of bounds or the 3 putt. The pro still hits them once in awhile but they are fewer and less damaging. You hit it out-of-bounds, he hits it in the rough. You're f**ked, he makes par with a good recovery. But it comes at a high price. If that's what you want then that's the commitment you have to make. It's work, a job. It's 9-5. As for me I'm don't want that in guitar. It takes the fun out of it.
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