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in a rut!


jtunes

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Posted

hi guys wondering if you could help me . Iv'e been playing guitar for a few years but I never really took any notice of ony theory (just very basic chords and such). I have a pretty good ear and my playing is good (so I've been told) good enough to play in a few metal and hard rock bands over the years. Iv'e hit a brick wall, sure I can play mettalica note for note or led zep/thin lizzy etc. but that is about as far as I seem to be able to get. does anybody know of any good istuctional dvd's,books, threads websites that may be able to help :confused:

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Posted

This forum is fairly slow, so you can look at other recent threads with near to the same topic and get much input. Auggie has a series posted below that I have not myself tried, but others seem to find beneficial. Most people here will tell you "get a metronome". As far as improvising and phrasing, i think those two are kinda self explinatory, do it more if you want to get better. Maybe you lack the theory to feel competent in improvising and maybe you feel you lack in chops or technique for phrasing? For rock, I felt like Gilbert's "Intense Rock" videos set the standard for "how to shred". He basically shows you how to play a few licks and the idea behind it vaguely. If you want more insignt into playing, check out Marty Friedman's instructional. It is very insightful on why he chooses certain notes and phrases. I wish Vai had an instructional and it still baffles me that he doesnt since he does instruct Jazz at Berkely time to time. I personally found Rusy Cooley's instructionals from CFH very good for practice drills and learning new techniques. Everything he plays is very intimidating, but just take it slow and its got plenty of good challenges. Speaking of Vai, since he did graduate from Berklee, he has a strong background in Jazz and music theory. I have taken the recommendation from Jazz'ers here and from Vai and recently ordered Ted Green's "Chord Chemistry" as well as the standard guitar theory series books that Berklee issues. I know a good bit of theory, but I want to start to learn a little Jazz.

Whatever you do, get a metronome and monitor your progress. Play cleanly and dont expect progress unless you put good time into it. Learning guitar has a steep curve that most people never cover. Its easy to grab a guitar and learn how to play a few cover songs, but to start to master the guitar takes a whole different level of dedication. Expect to put in no less than 1 hour a day towards challenging yourself technically and proportionally as much time in improvising. Once you get the theory behind you, you will be able to comprehend what it is other artists do that you like and understand it better.

If you are in a rut, and you already do practice every day, then explain what it is that you are doing now. Maybe you have poor practice routine and habits.

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Posted

Originally posted by typedeaF

This forum is fairly slow, so you can look at other recent threads with near to the same topic and get much input. Auggie has a series posted below that I have not myself tried, but others seem to find beneficial. Most people here will tell you "get a metronome". As far as improvising and phrasing, i think those two are kinda self explinatory, do it more if you want to get better. Maybe you lack the theory to feel competent in improvising and maybe you feel you lack in chops or technique for phrasing? For rock, I felt like Gilbert's "Intense Rock" videos set the standard for "how to shred". He basically shows you how to play a few licks and the idea behind it vaguely. If you want more insignt into playing, check out Marty Friedman's instructional. It is very insightful on why he chooses certain notes and phrases. I wish Vai had an instructional and it still baffles me that he doesnt since he does instruct Jazz at Berkely time to time. I personally found Rusy Cooley's instructionals from CFH very good for practice drills and learning new techniques. Everything he plays is very intimidating, but just take it slow and its got plenty of good challenges. Speaking of Vai, since he did graduate from Berklee, he has a strong background in Jazz and music theory. I have taken the recommendation from Jazz'ers here and from Vai and recently ordered Ted Green's "Chord Chemistry" as well as the standard guitar theory series books that Berklee issues. I know a good bit of theory, but I want to start to learn a little Jazz.


Whatever you do, get a metronome and monitor your progress. Play cleanly and dont expect progress unless you put good time into it. Learning guitar has a steep curve that most people never cover. Its easy to grab a guitar and learn how to play a few cover songs, but to start to master the guitar takes a whole different level of dedication. Expect to put in no less than 1 hour a day towards challenging yourself technically and proportionally as much time in improvising. Once you get the theory behind you, you will be able to comprehend what it is other artists do that you like and understand it better.


If you are in a rut, and you already do practice every day, then explain what it is that you are doing now. Maybe you have poor practice routine and habits.

 

 

 

 

Thanx heaps for your input typedeaf Iv'e heard alot of noise about metronomes never really took the time to investigate. what would be a good routine to get into with a met. (forgive me for my ignorance as when I started bedroom bashing nearly 20 years ago the best training equiptment I could muster was an old dape deck with a worn out rewind button:D )

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Posted

This may be a bit off topic, but it helped me break out of a rut.

For the beginning jazz player I would recommend Mickey Baker: Complete Course In Jazz Guitar.

I was studying classical guitar in college and the instructor I had recommended it. This book is a great starting point for the aspiring jazz guitarist. I also have the Cord Chemistry, which is good for cord shapes, but it does not tell you how to apply these cords. Where and where to substitute them etc... The Mickey Baker book was written in the '40's or something like that, but is a great starting point for learning some great jazz techniques.

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Posted

Originally posted by jtunes





Thanx heaps for your input typedeaf Iv'e heard alot of noise about metronomes never really took the time to investigate. what would be a good routine to get into with a met. (forgive me for my ignorance as when I started bedroom bashing nearly 20 years ago the best training equiptment I could muster was an old dape deck with a worn out rewind button:D )

 

 

As stated in many threads, get comfortable with playing the major scale in every key (or at least F C G D A E B ) in all 7 'boxes' (others might prefer the 5 shapes). By box, I mean playing the scale starting from each note diatonically on the low E string in a 3 note per string box (Intense Rock incorporates this). A good goal might be 16ths@160bpm or more. Play the scale in intervals: 3rds, 4ths, etc. This should be your bare minimal framework. I like to also throw in playing linearly (scale up and down on one string), over 2 strings (E and B) up and down, string skipping in boxes, string skipping across two strings up and down (E and G), and then 2+ octave runs combining 2 or more boxes. Then I work on odd groupings like 5's and 7's as opposed to 3's and 4's. I like quintuplets (5's) but not 7's so much...yet. I generally warm starting at about 500 notes per min. That translates roughly into 5's at 100, 4's at 120, 3's at 160 and 7's at 70. I play all my various practice licks at 500npm, then bump it up 10bpm on the metronome until i hit my limit. This is my even day routine, on odd days I practice mainly sweep picking in a similar manner. Sweep picking i warm up with major and minor 5&6 string sweeps in each root and inversion. Then I actually pick a few solo passages that are arpeggio intense and work on those 10bpm at a time. I just gave my warmup routine in general outline, but the on topic point is, every exercise I do, I start slow and then build up till I start getting sloppy. Without a metronome, its very hard to make small increments in speed and nearly impossible to track your progress.

 

Here is an idea of how to practice with different scales. This is a lick in D harmonic minor. Its just a lick to work on mobility, alternate picking, and tonal familiarity of the harmonic minor scale.

 

Here is one piece in particular that I now practice every day for arpeggio warmups.

 

Here is a good example of how the metronome can kick your ass at SLOWER speeds lol. In several spots I F up in this little piece and start rushing the beat. I find after I have warmed up, playing things like this is much more fun than continuing to go over "exercises". Take a section for a song that has some challenging licks, slow it down to half speed, then 3/4, then full speed. If you cant do it all in one night, set those as milestones.

 

Cheers

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Posted

cheers again typedeaf I found a metronome and have been playing around with it . I can see how it brings things in to perspective, runs that I was playing what I thought were flat out need to be backed of a lot to get the articulation and precision.

good stuff:thu:

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Posted

You can find a great 'ground up' approach to theory at my site.

Look at the Beginner to Advanced Series.

You'll need to to start right at the beginning of Intervals, then move into Chord Construction.

This will give you an excellent foundation to to be able to move into more advanced studies.And, its made to help you understand hard stuff the easy way.

Check that Series out.

There's other stuff at my site too that will pull you out of a rut quickly also. But for theory start at the Intervals.

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Posted

Originally posted by gennation

You can find a great 'ground up' approach to theory at my
.


Look at the Beginner to Advanced Series.


You'll need to to start right at the beginning of Intervals, then move into Chord Construction.


This will give you an excellent foundation to to be able to move into more advanced studies.And, its made to help you understand hard stuff the easy way.


Check that Series out.


There's other stuff at my site too that will pull you out of a rut q

uickly also. But for theory start at the Intervals.

 

 

 

thanks dude I just came across a copy of fretboard logic se it seems to be based on the caged system have you or anyone had any expieriance whith it? from what I have read so far it makes alot of sense infact to an old hack like myself it's freaky:freak:

 

I had a look at your site it looks good I'll give it a go:thu:

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Posted

I think there's quite a few of us that have used the CAGED system. Works like a charm. There's more to everything than the CAGED but it's great method to pickup on. It will definitely help and has proven itself manytimes over.

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Posted

Originally posted by gennation

I think there's quite a few of us that have used the CAGED system. Works like a charm. There's more to everything than the CAGED but it's great method to pickup on. It will definitely help and has proven itself manytimes over.

 

 

Gimme a link to what this "CAGED" system is. Sounds familiar but I dont know what it is. Thanks

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Posted

Try guitarlessonworld.com and cyberfret.com, they both have great lessons, guitar lesson world especially has several exercises that are supposed to improve your fretting hand's strength and speed and some alternate picking lessons as well. I've been recently using it to learn scales and miscellaneous music theory.

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Posted

Well, I feel a little out of place giving advice about music when I can't even read tabulature very well, and have had only rudimentary music instruction. But us self-taught guitarists get into ruts too.
I think that most of us can fall into ruts when we start playing the same phrases and licks over and over. I've heard many guitarists who recommend trying to play in a style that you normally don't, or playing along with music in different music styles than you're used to.

I'd say, first, that if you aren't writing songs and music already, start. Writing is a great way to feed you ear and your chops. Trying to write the music in a new song can force one to explore and play differently than one might if they were just practicing or fooling around on the guitar.
Many people practice tons of scales and modular runs. Another approach to soloing is to break up chords into single note runs. And play around with double stops, and with breaking up chords into two, three, and four string shapes. All of this is a great for understanding harmony and how the notes interact with each other.
Also, its really good to experiment with atonality and dissonance. Experiment with passing notes in scalar runs.
All of this hopefully, will lead to the growth of your 'ear'. You can learn fast runs by rote, but the real magic happens when your able to apply the scales and theory musically (does that make any sense?).
It's amazing, when you realize that the fretboard is wide open, and that there is sooo much music waiting to be discovered. You don't have to play fast to play great. Of course, there's nothing better than both playing fast and playing musically.

I guess my point is to say that ruts come from being trapped into familiar patterns of play. Ya get out of the rut when you start being creative and making music again.

Some people can get themselves out of ruts by playing with other people, or even playing new gear at a guitar store. However, playing at Guitar Center has made me go into slumps as well!
One other recommendation is to pick up another guitar and play. Just playing another guitar, or another amp, with its own new feel and tone, can help get you out of the slump.

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Posted

Originally posted by jtunes





Thanx heaps for your input typedeaf Iv'e heard alot of noise about metronomes never really took the time to investigate. what would be a good routine to get into with a met. (forgive me for my ignorance as when I started bedroom bashing nearly 20 years ago the best training equiptment I could muster was an old dape deck with a worn out rewind button:D )

 

 

always use a metronome or a drum machine and work hard to fix any timing issues caused by things like tricky chord changes or hand repositioning or awkward fingerings that haven't been fully assimilated into the playing reflexes tied to your imagination's whim or memory or to both.

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Posted

Originally posted by K.platyops

Well, I feel a little out of place giving advice about music when I can't even read tabulature very well, and have had only rudimentary music instruction. But us self-taught guitarists get into ruts too.

I think that most of us can fall into ruts when we start playing the same phrases and licks over and over. I've heard many guitarists who recommend trying to play in a style that you normally don't, or playing along with music in different music styles than you're used to.


I'd say, first, that if you aren't writing songs and music already, start. Writing is a great way to feed you ear and your chops. Trying to write the music in a new song can force one to explore and play differently than one might if they were just practicing or fooling around on the guitar.

Many people practice tons of scales and modular runs. Another approach to soloing is to break up chords into single note runs. And play around with double stops, and with breaking up chords into two, three, and four string shapes. All of this is a great for understanding harmony and how the notes interact with each other.

Also, its really good to experiment with atonality and dissonance. Experiment with passing notes in scalar runs.

All of this hopefully, will lead to the growth of your 'ear'. You can learn fast runs by rote, but the real magic happens when your able to apply the scales and theory musically (does that make any sense?).

It's amazing, when you realize that the fretboard is wide open, and that there is sooo much music waiting to be discovered. You don't have to play fast to play great. Of course, there's nothing better than both playing fast and playing musically.


I guess my point is to say that ruts come from being trapped into familiar patterns of play. Ya get out of the rut when you start being creative and making music again.


Some people can get themselves out of ruts by playing with other people, or even playing new gear at a guitar store. However, playing at Guitar Center has made me go into slumps as well!

One other recommendation is to pick up another guitar and play. Just playing another guitar, or another amp, with its own new feel and tone, can help get you out of the slump.

 

 

THanx K.platyops

I've been tripping so hard about scales and theory speed etc. that I almost forgot about why I started to play , and those moments when I've done something creative and found that magic. from now on I will dedicate at least one or two days practice time per week to writing and expierementing. Since I started this thread I have had so many awsome replies, I am starting to click to alot of things I had neglected early on being self taught, and at the start just wanting to rip out those licks and riffs. I now realize that if you really want to master this wickrd instrument you have to put in the hard yards, I mean really know the instrument and not just play it:thu:

I now have that awe back that I had when I was 14 and I got my first SG copy and plugged it into my dads stereo (blew up the speakers after about a month, my did I cop it:D )

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