How often do you play?

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by Kinetic Auggie just blew your point apart. There is scope for building techinque while concentrating on something else.

 

 

 

Not quite! Doing mindless exercises doesn't build technique; it builds strength, flexibility, etc., to better prepare one to work on technique. There is a difference!

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Knottyhed That's not quite what i'm saying, they both equally important - i'm trying to say that there's no benefit in sepparating the two or seeing them as different. If you don't want to sound like an automaton, you need to make the association between physical movement and the sounds that come out of your guitar. What better way to develop that than to get in the habit of listening whilst you practice?

Talk about missing the point.

Look maybe you don't have the experience to understand it yet (also ref: the alternate picking thread). I'm not advocating sitting doing technical exercises all day or just 'half-arsing' in front of the TV (actually that says a lot!). I'm simply stating that there is a place for practice which does not require your full attention, especially as you get more advanced.

It's possible to build muscle memory etc. without listening or giving it your full attention, but it just seems to be common sense that if you pay attention and listen to your playing, you'll be better off in the long run. I'm just amazed that there seems to be room for argument on that

It's not common sense. Common sense dicates that if you also utilise time for other things (ie watching the football) to continue to work at your guitar it's better in the long run.

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie Not quite! Doing mindless exercises doesn't build technique; it builds strength, flexibility, etc., to better prepare one to work on technique. There is a difference!

 

 

Err Auggie mate that is a part of technique.

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie But unfortunately, the majority of players don't bother moving beyond that level when it comes to practice, instead choosing to believe that their mindless exercises are all they need to do. In reality, they should never eat up more than ~10% of someone's practice time, and generally should be done first thing...more of a warm-up and preparation for the real practice that should follow. I know guys who spend 90% of their time on that stuff, and as a result, they don't make any progress.

 

 

..........................

 

There seems to be this misconception that I'm advocating sitting on front of the television and aimlessly noodling as a way of deleoping as a player.

 

I'm not and have not.

 

I've just stated that there if a place for practice that doesn't require your full attention. It would be foolish for anyone to think there is not.

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by Kinetic Err Auggie mate that is a part of technique.

It's part of the foundation for technique, but not technique in and of itself. Hundreds of years of methodologies for an incredible array of instruments back me up on this.

I'll go back to the sports analogy; a guy can spend all his time lifting weights and running, but unless he puts the bulk of his time and effort into the batting cage, into throwing, into catching, etc., he won't improve his skills as a baseball player. He'd just be bigger, stronger, and faster as he strikes out.

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by Kinetic Auggie just blew your point apart. There is scope for building techinque while concentrating on something else. Your argument is based on the part I've highlighted, which is actually incorrect. Are you only able to do something constructive if it gets your 100% attention?

 

 

It seems to me that you obviously don't give other people's forum your full attention either - that is why you fail to understand what I've said.

 

If you had bothered reading and taken the time to understand what i've now said, *several times*, you would have noticed that at no point did I claim it is not possible to develop motor skills or technique without using your ears or paying full attention. I just said that you are better off if you *do* pay attention and listen.

 

This seems like such a self-evident truth, I can only think I'm arguing with you about it because you think I'm saying it is *impossible* to develop techique without paying full attention. I don't believe this, I just believe and I will say this only one more time - PAYING ATTENTION AND LISTENING AS YOU PRACTICE IS BETTER THAN NOT PAYING ATTENTION AND NOT LISTENING WHILE YOU PRACTICE.

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by Kinetic .......................... There seems to be this misconception that I'm advocating sitting on front of the television and aimlessly noodling as a way of deleoping as a player.

I'm not saying or implying that you are advocating that; in fact, I'm going out of my way to make sure that anyone reading this thread doesn't infer it!

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie It's part of the foundation for technique, but not technique in and of itself. Hundreds of years of methodologies for an incredible array of instruments back me up on this. I'll go back to the sports analogy; a guy can spend all his time lifting weights and running, but unless he puts the bulk of his time and effort into the batting cage, into throwing, into catching, etc., he won't improve his skills as a baseball player. He'd just be bigger, stronger, and faster as he strikes out.

Auggie, lets not get into a fine debate about what constitutes technique or the fact that again you're implied something that I had not stated.

It's part of technique... we agree, we move on.

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie I'm not saying or implying that you are advocating that; in fact, I'm going out of my way to make sure that anyone reading this thread doesn't infer it!

You've achieved the opposite effect. By making statements related to what I've been talking about you've managed to get poor knottyhed to think that you've agreed with him because you're agreeing with the argument he's made up in his head.

We don't actually disagree with anything here Auggie but the way you have posted and made certain statements has impied that I've said things I've not

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Knottyhed It seems to me that you obviously don't give other people's forum your full attention either - that is why you fail to understand what I've said. If you had bothered reading and taken the time to understand what i've now said, *several times*, you would have noticed that at no point did I claim it is not possible to develop motor skills or technique without using your ears or paying full attention. I just said that you are better off if you *do* pay attention and listen. This seems like such a self-evident truth, I can only think I'm arguing with you about it because you think I'm saying it is *impossible* to develop techique without paying full attention. I don't believe this, I just believe and I will say this only one more time - PAYING ATTENTION AND LISTENING AS YOU PRACTICE IS BETTER THAN NOT PAYING ATTENTION AND NOT LISTENING WHILE YOU PRACTICE.

 

 

And I've asked you if you shut off your ears when watching TV? Are you not capable of listening to more than one thing at once? Do you not have the motor skills to do something with one hand and watch the TV at the same time? Do you not have the awareness of you body to tell you when you have done something wrong?

 

You see rather than listen to what I've said you've made assumption after assumption in order to enchance your argument. I stated that there was a place for practicing in front of the TV and from that you've assumed half-assed noodling without paying any attention and that I've advocated doing it all the time.

 

Tell me what do you do when you want to watch TV, nothing heavy, something light?

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by Kinetic Talk about missing the point. Look maybe you don't have the experience to understand it yet

 

 

I'm not getting into a "dick comparing contest" with you. Suffice to say I have 12 years electric guitar playing experience and before that have played acoustic/classical guitar on and off since i was 8 years old (I'm now 27). I don't care if you've been playing longer, or less long - either way it gives me enough experience to comment on the subject of practice.

 

Originally posted by Kinetic It's not common sense. Common sense dicates that if you also utilise time for other things (ie watching the football) to continue to work at your guitar it's better in the long run.

 

 

Sure - but not watching the football at all and taking that time as dedicated guitar playing time is surely more productive. Can we at least agree on that?

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by Kinetic And I've asked you if you shut off your ears when watching TV? Are you not capable of listening to more than one thing at once? Do you not have the motor skills to do something with one hand and watch the TV at the same time? Do you not have the awareness of you body to tell you when you have done something wrong? You see rather than listen to what I've said you've made assumption after assumption in order to enchance your argument. I stated that there was a place for practicing in front of the TV and from that you've assumed half-assed noodling without paying any attention and that I've advocated doing it all the time. Tell me what do you do when you want to watch TV, nothing heavy, something light?

 

 

I rarely watch it to be honest, if i do i sometimes pick up my electric unplugged and play stuff, i play guitar for fun as well as to get better at it. Any playing is better than no playing, but focused practice is better than unfocused practice.

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Knottyhed I'm not getting into a "dick comparing contest" with you. Suffice to say I have 12 years electric guitar playing experience and before that have played acoustic/classical guitar on and off since i was 8 years old (I'm now 27). I don't care if you've been playing longer, or less long - either way it gives me enough experience to comment on the subject of practice.

.....

Sure - but not watching the football at all and taking that time as dedicated guitar playing time is surely more productive. Can we at least agree on that?

Yes... but if you want to watch the football?


I'm off teaching, I'll come back later and see how this thread has developed.

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Knottyhed I rarely watch it to be honest, if i do i sometimes pick up my electric unplugged and play stuff, i play guitar for fun as well as to get better at it. Any playing is better than no playing, but focused practice is better than unfocused practice.

And did I ever say any different?

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by Kinetic You've achieved the opposite effect. By making statements related to what I've been talking about you've managed to get poor knottyhed to think that you've agreed with him because you're agreeing with the argument he's made up in his head. We don't actually disagree with anything here Auggie but the way you have posted and made certain statements has impied that I've said things I've not

You inferred it. I did not imply it.

I do not disagree with Knotthed's position, though, either.

I'm right in the middle; if you fellas don't knock it off, I'm gonna have to start cracking skulls.

[gennation]

I used to do a lot of "noodling" in front of the TV, but I got a LOT better when I started "noodling" in front of a metronome

I practiced and learned for years, then I took a hiatus and did NOTHING but worked on writing and being original...for like 20 years. Through this I have about 200 songs copyrighted.

But, I've made a decision this year...starting the first week of the year...that I'm now going to concentrate of learning, practicing skills, reading music, transcriping solo's again, etc...and most importantly...work out the bugs that have been plaguing my skills for decades.

So, I don't get to practice much during the week, but every weekend...and I've been keeping my schedule free, I play pretty much non-stop. So with what I get in during the week and weekend I'm probably practicing 25-30 hours a week.

I've went from playing four 16th notes per metronome click, comfortibly at 85bpm...I think that's 340 notes per minute...to 16th notes per metronome click at 120-125bpm. In not even two months!!!

I can now even START my practices at 115bpm.

I came up with practice routines that are mixed. Some are repeative things, some are musical peices. Some are created for stamina, some for just a 'hit the strings and get it right the first time'.

I stopped doing this kind of practice when I was younger but stopped to focus on writing...I was doing 16-18 hours a day for about 1.5 years. Yeah, I played until my fingers bled a few times

And I played live for a living for about 15 years too, so I was playing EVERY night too.

And then like I said...I went head on into writing and never looked back...even stopped learning others solo's.

Well, now is the time for me to take it up a few notches for a year. I think this will give some principle and understanding I've been neglecting....

do I like a practice regiment?...not necessarily I guess...I don;t hate it either...But, the rewards have been well worth it.

So, turn off the TV and turn on the metronome

PS I should also state that music, in many forms, is an outlet. Music can fill many minds very differently. Not everyone does things the same, has to know the same stuff, acheives the same things...and that's the beauty of it. And, the way it effects everyone and how everyone responds to it is one of the main reasons it's lasted this long and continues. And this is the reason a new person picks it up for the first time or learns something new everyday. IOW, there's is no right or wrong.

[typedeaF]

Okay, let me see if I have this straight.

Someone said they practice while watching TV. I said that I think practice time should be focused and not just noodling while watching TV. Knotty agreed. Kinetic disagreed, but only on the implication that he can actually focus while watching TV and practicing. So everyone agrees that focused practice time is more efficent...right? What is the arguement?

Sure, I personally cant watch TV and focus on practice at the same time. Maybe some people can.

I do believe that the physical and mental aspects can be seperated. For instance, when I race my metronome, I am no longer paying much attention to anything and practically day dreaming ...but I think this is because my lack of sleep. I wasnt always so absent minded when practicing with a metronome. I generally work hard on the proper fingering and technique for a lick, and then let my muscle memory take over to develop to take care of the speed.

I personally spend WAY to much time practicing instead of playing now because I only have 1-2 hrs a day Mon-Fri, so I want to make sure I dont lose my skill. Ideally, I wish I could spend more time playing and working on other aspects, but my primary concern is keeping my skills sharp enough for when I do have more time.

I think a LOT of us are in the same boat. Especially when you dont have a band, its hard to find something to work on other than practice..for me.

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie You inferred it. I did not imply it. I do not disagree with Knotthed's position, though, either. I'm right in the middle; if you fellas don't knock it off, I'm gonna have to start cracking skulls.

I inferred no such thing but at the risk of a skull cracking I will keep quiet

[Kinetic]

Originally posted by typedeaF Okay, let me see if I have this straight. Someone said they practice while watching TV. I said that I think practice time should be focused and not just noodling while watching TV. Knotty agreed. Kinetic disagreed, but only on the implication that he can actually focus while watching TV and practicing. So everyone agrees that focused practice time is more efficent...right? What is the arguement?

Ahhh... The internet would not exist if it were not for misunderstandings, certainly forums like these would be dead. If we were all together in the same room this entire debate would have been over in less than two minutes, but where would the fun be in that? God bless the written word!

Sure, I personally cant watch TV and focus on practice at the same time. Maybe some people can.

I wouldn't say it's a lack of focus on practice, more going through the motions. Technique maintainence in a sense. I have limited time to play for myself and so a lot of my 'practice' revolves around maintaining the physical aspects of my technique (for Auggie ) so it's there when I need it. I certainly couldn't do something with the guitar that required my attention in front of the TV, nor can I do something constructive on the guitar when the TV is thought-provoking (just in case anyone thought I'd sit there watching soaps ).

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by typedeaF Okay, let me see if I have this straight. Someone said they practice while watching TV. I said that I think practice time should be focused and not just noodling while watching TV. Knotty agreed. Kinetic disagreed, but only on the implication that he can actually focus while watching TV and practicing. So everyone agrees that focused practice time is more efficent...right? What is the arguement?

I've no idea - i think everyone is saying exactly the same thing with different emphasis maybe... what i am trying to say is that ideally you should focus whilst practicing and listen to what your playing. I also said "Also jogging etc. are physical activities, guitar is both a mental and physical activity (or it should be)." which is where it all kicked off i think.

I'm pretty sure that Auggie said that too (i.e guitar playing is both mental and physical and you should practice guitar as such); hence why i said he agreed with me. At no point did i say you *can't* practice in front of the TV, just that *ideally* you shouldn't. Of course if the football is on, that may not be realistic

Anyway at the risk of getting my skull cracked with kinetic's i'll just drop it now

[Auggie Doggie]

http://www.4thebreakfastclub.com/sounds/skulls.wav

[jedblues]

My practice habits have suffered greatly over the last six months. A bunch of life changes (relationship, job, move)...

Although I've been playing for 14 years, I find if I neglect quality practice for even as little as a week my playing becomes adversely affected. It's been two weeks now since I've played.

Usually, though, I find that an hour of quality practice a day is an excellent way to stay focused, effective, articulate, and physically strong enough to play well consistently.

JD

[Skitzo130]

Originally posted by Knottyhed LOL - i happen to think they're stupid anyway You can build all the grip strength you need simply playing guitar. Bottom line - whatever works for you, but personally believe that whatever you're playing, you'll get more out of it if you are paying attention and listening to what you're doing. Taking scales as an example, if you listen and concentrate on what you are doing, not only will you build the muscle reflexes to play the scale - you will get to hear the scale's intervals in your head and make the association between the fingers and sound. Not to mention that playing scales with a metronome will do alot more for your speed, cleanliness of playing and sense of timing than playing scales whilst watching the TV and not paying attention. Also jogging etc. are physical activities, guitar is both a mental and physical activity (or it should be).

regardless of what you think of me,
what I do is mute the tv and play on commercial breaks into a mini amp
this works for me and if u dont like it,
u can kiss my hairy ***''

[Skitzo130]

Originally uttered impuslively with out a lot of thinking through by Kinetic Ahhh... The internet would not exist if it were not for misunderstandings,

 

 

are u saying that the internet consists purely of forums?

[GodHELPme]

all i know is any time i have a guitar in my hand i consider it practice. i am not a nazi. every second spent worrying about if im practicing right or wrong is a wasted second.

none of us are famous or superstar guitar players here. it would be interesting to see if those who are famous guitar players worried about how they practiced or just picked the {censored}ing guitar up and played.

im guessing they just did what felt best.

maybe the internet is both a curse and a blessing?

we get lots of info but we also get overloaded with other peoples ideas about whats right and wrong which may not always be the right ones. i just do what i want and take the rest with a grain of salt. i suggest you do the same.