Members Darylb23 Posted February 7, 2006 Members Posted February 7, 2006 Some of these "how long have you been playing" and "how good am I after this many months" threads got me thinking. I am basically going the "self taught" method at this point so to speak. It really isnt self taught, it just means I am not going to a teacher. I have what I think is a good DVD and with the help of this forum, have found tons of good stuff on the internet. Anyway, since I dont have a teacher or anyone else of experience with me I started to wonder if some of my challenges are the common ones or just my unique inabilities. So here are my issues so far. Extra noise. I expect this is common for new players but I am sometimes a bull in a china shop. Bumping into strings all over the place creating lots of unwanted noise. I am trying to play slow and accurate and trying to learn to mute as necessary but sometimes it seems like I need another hand just for muting. Accidental pull offs and hammer ons. How do you stop that? Lots of times when I bend a string with my third finger and release, my finger plays that string like a pull off. Like it gets stuck to my finger. Also, when bending, if I try to go too fast especially, I bump into the next string up and it sounds like a hammer on. I see people bending up what looks like two strings. How in the world do you not get noise? My already public hate for the G major chord. Pinky on the high e, second and third fingers on the two lowest strings. I finally can get to that position and sound the chord, sometimes, but when I have to change and come back it can be a train wreck. Is this common or do I have a G deficiency? Barre chords. Pfffft. I tried those for the first time the other day and I am not sure I will ever get one of those to sound right. Yet I see others play and it looks effortless. That extra hand would be valuable here. I am guessing this is tough for any new guy but dang they are hard. Finally, it seems that I can learn the single note licks easier than chord changes. I mean I can learn the chord and play it but when I play it to a track it takes me a long time to get the changes smooth. I learned an entire blues solo from the DVD and although I cant play it fast enough to go along with the track yet, I can play it all the way through pretty clean. I've only been playing for 6 weeks and not expecting miracles but I thought I would bounce it off of you guys. Like I said, I dont really have anyone to talk or play music with around here. Maybe all I am looking for is reassurance that I am not a total spaz and that there is hope. I wouldnt be opposed to some drills or suggestions either.
Members zookie Posted February 7, 2006 Members Posted February 7, 2006 Everything you wrote sounds about what I was doing way back when I started playing guitar. Chord changes are a pain when you start. All I can say is spend a couple of practice sessions switching between G Maj and C Maj. As for the banged extra notes and accidental pull-offs, again, that's a practice, practice, practice answer. What you sometimes don't get from books is the close interplay the right and left hands have in playing guitar. Many times, you're asked to look at the fretting or the strumming. When you strum a chord, you also use a little of the fleshy part of your strumming hand to mute errant strings. Form a G major and strum it with a downward stroke. Immediately after the strum, lay the fleshy part of your strumming hand down across the strings. Notice how the sound is stopped. You can use that to silence a string that just won't shut up while you play. It's not easy, but you can get used to it. You can also use that technique to partially mute strings to create a percussive, chugga-chugga strum pattern. Good luck!
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 7, 2006 Members Posted February 7, 2006 rip, you aare saying nothing that every beginner doesn't wonder about. Keep at it, it'll come to ya =)btw, I HIGHLY recommend you check out www.metalmethod.com I used his VHS tapes back in 1989 and they were a great foundation for me. I'm still learning everyday, and so is everyone else that cares about the guitar, but his course is a great place to start. And yeah, barre chords suck at first.. Get a Grip Master, ASAP. It's a hand excerciser dealie that will really strengthen your hand quickly.
Members Darylb23 Posted February 7, 2006 Author Members Posted February 7, 2006 Originally posted by zookie Everything you wrote sounds about what I was doing way back when I started playing guitar. Well, this helps me know that I'm not crazy .......... unless of course you are crazy too.Thanks for your response and advice. I am fully willing to keep after it. I am really enjoying it. I was pretty much thinking repitition is part of it but wanted to make sure I was repeating the right thing. My wife loves the repitition. I practice in our bedroom while she is watching tv and even though I use headphones she can hear what I play. Sometimes she just looks over and says "can you please play something different for a little while?". Thanks again.
Members LaurentB Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by ripvan Some of these "how long have you been playing" and "how good am I after this many months" threads got me thinking. I am basically going the "self taught" method at this point so to speak. It really isnt self taught, it just means I am not going to a teacher. I have what I think is a good DVD and with the help of this forum, have found tons of good stuff on the internet.Anyway, since I dont have a teacher or anyone else of experience with me I started to wonder if some of my challenges are the common ones or just my unique inabilities. So here are my issues so far.Extra noise. I expect this is common for new players but I am sometimes a bull in a china shop. Bumping into strings all over the place creating lots of unwanted noise. I am trying to play slow and accurate and trying to learn to mute as necessary but sometimes it seems like I need another hand just for muting.Accidental pull offs and hammer ons. How do you stop that? Lots of times when I bend a string with my third finger and release, my finger plays that string like a pull off. Like it gets stuck to my finger. Also, when bending, if I try to go too fast especially, I bump into the next string up and it sounds like a hammer on. I see people bending up what looks like two strings. How in the world do you not get noise?My already public hate for the G major chord. Pinky on the high e, second and third fingers on the two lowest strings. I finally can get to that position and sound the chord, sometimes, but when I have to change and come back it can be a train wreck. Is this common or do I have a G deficiency?Barre chords. Pfffft. I tried those for the first time the other day and I am not sure I will ever get one of those to sound right. Yet I see others play and it looks effortless. That extra hand would be valuable here. I am guessing this is tough for any new guy but dang they are hard.Finally, it seems that I can learn the single note licks easier than chord changes. I mean I can learn the chord and play it but when I play it to a track it takes me a long time to get the changes smooth. I learned an entire blues solo from the DVD and although I cant play it fast enough to go along with the track yet, I can play it all the way through pretty clean. I've only been playing for 6 weeks and not expecting miracles but I thought I would bounce it off of you guys. Like I said, I dont really have anyone to talk or play music with around here. Maybe all I am looking for is reassurance that I am not a total spaz and that there is hope. I wouldnt be opposed to some drills or suggestions either. If you're only playing six weeks you're doing just fine. Especially since you seem to be very accurately aware of everything that goes wrong.Guitar simply is a bit tough in the beginning, you have to make your own sounds as opposed to playing keyboards. But because of that keyboard players meet the bigger problems later: when trying to be expressive. This is easier on guitar once you have some technique. Specifically: You're practising exactly how you should: slow and trying to be accurate. Only when having learned the right movements of a song or excercise try to play it faster. Muting:Let fingers that are fretting notes rest against adjacent strings, so that at least those won't make unwanted sounds. I have heard of a G-spot but never of a G-deficiency, hahaha! It's a common problem with every beginning guitar player (the G-deficiency, I mean). That pinky finger just has to learn to do something useful other than picking noses for once in his life. Barre chords: keep trying and trying. It's a long term project but you'll get there. Just try for a while every day and then move on to something fun to play. The main thing to remember is that progression often comes in steps. For weeks you don't notice that much progression and then all of a sudden you find yourself doing something you couldn't do before. Just hang in there.
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 and get a metronome! Keeping time, or rather the lack there of, is a major problem today. If you can't count, you can't play. On that G chord problem. A lot of guys cheat and play it like: -3- (i or m) -3- (i or m) -0- -0- -X- (muted by tip of thumb) -3- (thumb) Barring the 1st and 2nd with either the index or middle, while catching the 6th string with their thumb and muting the 5th by just catching the thumb tip on it. This works, and is very easy to do, but it isn't technically correct. But, if you need a G and just can't quite make it happen the correct way, it can come in handy. Technically speaking, it's a G 5th chord (Because it leaves out the B note on the 5th string..) but it sounds a lot bigger and brighter than a typical G 5th.. Personally, I like this G: -3- (p) -3- ® -0- -0- -2- (i) -3- (m) It's the same G you are having problems with, but I put my ring finger on the 2nd string 3rd fret. It makes the G sound fuller, plus the pinky doesn't have to work so independantly of the other fingers. It's still a G Major, just adding another D note an octave up.. That makes the chord sound brighter, happier. If anything I've said confuses you, please ask for clarification. You don't want to build on something that you are confused over. Ask, I or someone else will be happy to explain anything you need to know.
Members Darylb23 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Members Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by LaurentB If you're only playing six weeks you're doing just fine. Especially since you seem to be very accurately aware of everything that goes wrong. Guitar simply is a bit tough in the beginning, you have to make your own sounds as opposed to playing keyboards. But because of that keyboard players meet the bigger problems later: when trying to be expressive. This is easier on guitar once you have some technique. Specifically: You're practising exactly how you should: slow and trying to be accurate. Only when having learned the right movements of a song or excercise try to play it faster. Muting: Let fingers that are fretting notes rest against adjacent strings, so that at least those won't make unwanted sounds. I have heard of a G-spot but never of a G-deficiency, hahaha! It's a common problem with every beginning guitar player (the G-deficiency, I mean). That pinky finger just has to learn to do something useful other than picking noses for once in his life. Barre chords: keep trying and trying. It's a long term project but you'll get there. Just try for a while every day and then move on to something fun to play. The main thing to remember is that progression often comes in steps. For weeks you don't notice that much progression and then all of a sudden you find yourself doing something you couldn't do before. Just hang in there. Thanks, this is the news I was hoping for. And for the record ............... I have a G chord deficiency but am fully accomplished in the G-spot area .............. or so I've been told.
Members LaurentB Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by ripvan Thanks, this is the news I was hoping for. And for the record ............... I have a G chord deficiency but am fully accomplished in the G-spot area .............. or so I've been told. And then of course there are the many problems guitarists experience with G-strings.
Members Darylb23 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Members Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by RaVenCAD and get a metronome! Keeping time, or rather the lack there of, is a major problem today. If you can't count, you can't play.On that G chord problem. A lot of guys cheat and play it like:-3- (i or m)-3- (i or m)-0--0--X- (muted by tip of thumb)-3- (thumb)Barring the 1st and 2nd with either the index or middle, while catching the 6th string with their thumb and muting the 5th by just catching the thumb tip on it. This works, and is very easy to do, but it isn't technically correct. But, if you need a G and just can't quite make it happen the correct way, it can come in handy. Technically speaking, it's a G 5th chord (Because it leaves out the B note on the 5th string..) but it sounds a lot bigger and brighter than a typical G 5th..Personally, I like this G:-3- (p)-3- (r)-0--0--2- (i)-3- (m)It's the same G you are having problems with, but I put my ring finger on the 2nd string 3rd fret. It makes the G sound fuller, plus the pinky doesn't have to work so independantly of the other fingers. It's still a G Major, just adding another D note an octave up.. That makes the chord sound brighter, happier. If anything I've said confuses you, please ask for clarification. You don't want to build on something that you are confused over. Ask, I or someone else will be happy to explain anything you need to know. I dont have a metronome but I always play with a track of some sort. I have read many times about how important time is but mainly it forces me to pay attention and make the changes happen. Easy to get lazy if I dont have to keep up with the practice tracks. I think the idea of alternate fingerings makes a lot of sense. I am using pinky, ring and middle fingers now because the practice track I play with has C in it as well so the change better. I tried the second method you show but it is more difficult to change to C. It sounds like learning alternate fingerings and using the best for the specific song is the best way to go but if I cant get this one soon I may have to just learn to switch better from the more comfortable fingering to the C. I thank you for your replies, it is nice to have folks to knock this stuff around with. Although I am very much a beginner, you guys are pretty patient and helpful.
Members Darylb23 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Members Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by LaurentB And then of course there are the many problems guitarists experience with G-strings. Who told you I wear G-strings ............. or did you mean the string on the guitar ........................? Hmmm.Ok, for the record, I do not wear G-strings ......... but if I did, I would look hot.
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 Defintely, I always try to find the easiest way to finger a chord. I'm lazy and have carpal tunnel (or something, not sure what it is but it hurts to stretch a lot).. However, I can switch from my G fingering to C without even really thinking about. That fluidity only comes from time and endless repetitions. The wife may not enjoy it, but you'll grow from it as a player. Another option for G is:-3--3--4--5--X--X-This is the same shape as an F Major chord, only moved up 2 frets. It's very easy to play.. Play it once, wasn't that easy? Don't look now, but you just played a barre chord that didn't hurt! And, it's easy to switch that chord to C because the fingers hold the strings in the same relative position. Move to C major without changing the way you are holding your fingers. Lands just right.Do you have a PDA? If so, I HIGHLY recommend a program called Pocket GuitarRef. You simply tell it what chord you want, and it shows you all the different inversions for that chord. Pick the easiest one and go with it. It runs on PPC, but there are similar programs out for Palm as well. If you don't have a PDA (get one, they're awesome learning tools!), then Planetwaves makes a chord computer for like $30 that does the same thing. Anytime I find a new chord, or just want to learn more about one I see a guy playing, I go puch it in and see what it is.
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 Link to the software:http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=1&productId=96980 You can also get tuner and metrnome software for a PDA as well..
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 An online metronome (Thanks to Auggie Doggie's signature)http://www.metronomeonline.com/ An online chord generator (not as good as the PDA one I suggested, but it shows the right dots.. )http://chords.kytara.cz/guitar-cords/
Members Darylb23 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Members Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by RaVenCAD An online metronome (Thanks to Auggie Doggie's signature)http://www.metronomeonline.com/An online chord generator (not as good as the PDA one I suggested, but it shows the right dots.. )http://chords.kytara.cz/guitar-cords/ Man, I've hit the mother load. Lots of great info. Sincerely, thanks for you time. Knowing that I might not have to play that freakin G that way has cheered me right up. Thanks again. I'll let you know how it goes. I am currently at work and guitar is at home.
Members guitarviz Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 Another advantage of this fingering:-- P ---- R ---- ---- F (optional)-- M --is it makes it very easy to switch back and forth between the G and D chords, which are often found together in songs (cuz in key of D, G is the IV chord, in key of G, D is the V chord). Just leave the ring finger planted. Lots of AC/DC songs like this.However when switching between G and C chords it doesn't work so well, as you noticed. Maybe that's why I believe Angus uses your fingering on Shook Me, since there's fast switching between the G and C chords.Another advantage of your fingering is you can mimic some open-G tuning chord changes, well actually I can only think of one at the moment that would be this: when you switch from the G to the C chord, leave your ring finger on the sixth string (instead of putting it on the fifth string like you normally would for the C chord) and let it rest against the fifth string to stop it from sounding. Voila, Jesus Just Left Chicago (ZZ Top) in standard tuning.
Members Paragraph51 Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 It takes about 6 months for the body to become accustomed to playing the guitar, so just keep practicing and be careful to practice without making any flaws, even if you have to play at 40 bpm to do so. Also, it's the repetition that's important, and speed will develop through repetition, so you do not have to try racing the metronome more than a few times a year, you just have to practice properly and often, and your skill will develop by leaps and bounds. Racing the metronome tends to developed flawed fast playing, so don't use it as a practice method, just as a way to see how fast you can play things perfectly and then go back to being slow and careful and being perfect in execution in every way as the way to practice again. Once you can play solidly and perfect at a moderate speed, then raise the bpms a little bit, just to the point short of error in execution of the exercises..and stick to that tempo for two weeks before raising it again, and only a little bit, 2-4 bpm...another 2 weeks and so on.
Members nylon rock Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 Yeah, those open G and open C chords were near impossible for me too when I was just starting. Now I don't even need to look. You know you're in the right place just by the way your hand and thumb barely recognize the underside of the headstock in that region. But you are lucky in some respects. If you ignore trying to sound like the greats and just take the guitar at face value as making some sort of music, you live in a zone that you only get to experience once in your life: the zone of a beginner. It has its place in every guitarists past. Everytime you pick up the guitar it's an adventure. You might not be able to do much, but you still marvel at what you can do.
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 8, 2006 Members Posted February 8, 2006 rip, I didn't say you were totally off the hook. Learning multiple inversions of a single chord is a great thing. Sometimes, a certain inversion just doesn't "say" what you want it to say, and another one might. So no, you'll need to learn that one eventually.. Actually, I never had any problems with open chords when I first started. Barre chords, sure, they sucked, they KILL your thumb.. But open chords just sort of worked for me. Switching cleanly took time, of course, but the chords just felt right. I guess A and B were the toughest, becuase I've played them as barre chords since day 1.
Members Darylb23 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Members Posted February 9, 2006 Originally posted by RaVenCAD rip, I didn't say you were totally off the hook. Learning multiple inversions of a single chord is a great thing. Sometimes, a certain inversion just doesn't "say" what you want it to say, and another one might. So no, you'll need to learn that one eventually.. Actually, I never had any problems with open chords when I first started. Barre chords, sure, they sucked, they KILL your thumb.. But open chords just sort of worked for me. Switching cleanly took time, of course, but the chords just felt right. I guess A and B were the toughest, becuase I've played them as barre chords since day 1. I didnt mean that wouldnt have to play it that way at all but that it wouldnt have to be my only option. I actually worked on a few different variations last night and found two, including the one I complained about that will work. It would just depend what other chords were involved. Meanwhile, I am just going to have to keep playing them until they become more natural. Going to wait until Im in a better mood to start messing with barre chords again though.
Members FofV Posted February 9, 2006 Members Posted February 9, 2006 It seems most of your questions have been answered here however here are a few tips, other than practice more, for that barre chord. Try rolling to the outside of your finger, its a little more solid and will be easier to press down the string. I also find this helps me keep the barre straight, you want your finger parallel to the fretwire, Don't stress to much about hand strength, that will come with time. Try to use gravity and the fretboard to get more pressure. Try pulling into the neck and down with your shoulder, it should feel almost like you are flexing your bicep. It will take some of the stress off your hand. Last for a little extra pull, try putting your thumb behind the fret that is being played by your 3rd finger(assuming your playing the typical major and minor chords), or in other words place it farther away from your first finger than normal. Good Luck, Hope this helps.
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 9, 2006 Members Posted February 9, 2006 Those would actually be principles of LEVERAGE, not gravity. But yeah, they work.
Members Darylb23 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Members Posted February 9, 2006 Originally posted by FofV It seems most of your questions have been answered here however here are a few tips, other than practice more, for that barre chord.Try rolling to the outside of your finger, its a little more solid and will be easier to press down the string. I also find this helps me keep the barre straight, you want your finger parallel to the fretwire,Don't stress to much about hand strength, that will come with time. Try to use gravity and the fretboard to get more pressure.Try pulling into the neck and down with your shoulder, it should feel almost like you are flexing your bicep. It will take some of the stress off your hand.Last for a little extra pull, try putting your thumb behind the fret that is being played by your 3rd finger(assuming your playing the typical major and minor chords), or in other words place it farther away from your first finger than normal.Good Luck,Hope this helps. Thanks, I definitely appreciate the tips. I need to start bringing my guitar to work so I dont have to wait till I get home to try stuff. Thanks again.
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