Members MorePaul Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Guys; There has been some discussion on thread http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1174849 surrounding some content related to someof Frank Gambale's instructional material As Frank is an interested party, I did send him a link to this discusion so that he can participate in the discussion He is having a little trouble logging on, but has asked me to post this reply (I have posted the reply in the original thread, but thought it might warrant it' own thread to call particular attention to it, esp as it is being posted under my name and may not command the attention it should -- poor me ) from Frank "To Yngtchie and anyone else who thinks copyright enfringement is a right of any consumer let me say this...the circle is broken...if artists do not get paid because of the proliferation of thieves and scoundrels stealing our work it will bring the whole industry to it's knees and remove any remaining incentive to make music, dvds, books...everything...let me ask you this....do you go into grocery stores and load up your shopping cart and just leave? In every industry there is a chain of events that happens to produce and deliver products to market and this includes intellectual products. If authors don't get paid then other professions are considered...what will remain is music and literature made by amateurs and that will be a sad fate indeed. To be sure copyright infringement is robbery and robbery is wrong and punishable by law. I suggest removing my video at once and anyone elses that you are stealing either for moral reasons if not for legal reasons because you WILL be traced. I am alerting Warner Brothers/ Alfred Publishing and they will alert Interpol ( International Police ). If you think copyright laws do not apply in different countries, think again... Frank Gambale" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fatfat Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Hi Frank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kinetic Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Damn right too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PRSnotPOS Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 What the hell? Is this for real? Why not just delete the thread???? :freak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PRSnotPOS Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by MorePaul Guys; There has been some discussion on thread http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1174849 surrounding some content related to someof Frank Gambale's instructional material As Frank is an interested party, I did send him a link to this discusion so that he can participate in the discussion He is having a little trouble logging on, but has asked me to post this reply (I have posted the reply in the original thread, but thought it might warrant it' own thread to call particular attention to it, esp as it is being posted under my name and may not command the attention it should -- poor me ) from Frank "To Yngtchie and anyone else who thinks copyright enfringement is a right of any consumer let me say this...the circle is broken...if artists do not get paid because of the proliferation of thieves and scoundrels stealing our work it will bring the whole industry to it's knees and remove any remaining incentive to make music, dvds, books...everything...let me ask you this....do you go into grocery stores and load up your shopping cart and just leave? In every industry there is a chain of events that happens to produce and deliver products to market and this includes intellectual products. If authors don't get paid then other professions are considered...what will remain is music and literature made by amateurs and that will be a sad fate indeed. To be sure copyright infringement is robbery and robbery is wrong and punishable by law. I suggest removing my video at once and anyone elses that you are stealing either for moral reasons if not for legal reasons because you WILL be traced. I am alerting Warner Brothers/ Alfred Publishing and they will alert Interpol ( International Police ). If you think copyright laws do not apply in different countries, think again... Frank Gambale" Also shouldn't the incentive to make music be your love for it and not the money??? I'm not sticking up for piracy but I just think that if you are making music just to make money you should probably find a different career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PRSnotPOS Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Who the hell IS Frank Gambale anyways?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CM1000 Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 frank gambale is one of the greatest players alive today. he has been a large part of the development of the sweeping technique (one of the original pioneers) and teachers at LA Music Academy. Played with chic corea in the 80's. if you dont know frank gambale you dont know modern guitar. to prs- when music is the only way you make money it becomes necessary. gotta feed your family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kinetic Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by PRSnotPOS Also shouldn't the incentive to make music be your love for it and not the money??? I'm not sticking up for piracy but I just think that if you are making music just to make money you should probably find a different career. I guess you could get any job you apply for given that you'll work for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kinetic Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by CM1000 to prs- when music is the only way you make money it becomes necessary. gotta feed your family When music becomes a way you can make money why not do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CM1000 Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by Kinetic When music becomes a way you can make money why not do so? my point exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kinetic Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by CM1000 my point exactly Yeah, I was just putting it in another way PRS has got me a little annoyed. Presuably he believes that that state owes him a living too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted March 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by PRSnotPOS What the hell? Is this for real? yes, it is for real The original thread is not mine and contains a body of thought on the issue - so I cannot delete it, nor would I want to destroy others' posts THIS thread is to call attention to Frank's reponse -- As I am acting as proxy (technical reasons, login problems) his response would appear under my name and so might not get attention due it and let's face facts there are only 2 types of people 1) those who don't pay attention to my posts b/c it's me 2) thoe that should follow type 1's policies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Knottyhed Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by PRSnotPOS Also shouldn't the incentive to make music be your love for it and not the money??? I'm not sticking up for piracy but I just think that if you are making music just to make money you should probably find a different career. LOL - perhaps someone should email Frank and tell him PRSnotPOS says he should find another career? Seriously though, if people don't pay for CD's/video's etc. who is going to make them? Without the industry and the financhial incentive to produce and release CD's there'd be alot of guitarists unheard outside a few local bars in their area. As the man says that'd be a sorry state of affairs. Doing something for love is very noble n'all that, but at the end of the day you have to put food on the table and it's takes alot of money, alot of work and alot of time to put together an album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slave_New_Wurld Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by CM1000 if you dont know frank gambale you dont know modern guitar. hahahahahahaaa!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by Knottyhed Seriously though, if people don't pay for CD's/video's etc. who is going to make them? Without the industry and the financhial incentive to produce and release CD's there'd be alot of guitarists unheard outside a few local bars in their area. As the man says that'd be a sorry state of affairs. Being a good/great musician takes time; it's a lifelong pursuit, and an invaluable one at that. If there's not fair compensation for one's time and effort, it's not feasible to be a musician (unless you want to starve your whole life), and there will be little to no incentive for others to become musicians in the future. In the long run, music (which is already badly devalued) becomes as important a part of our culture as, say, embroidery. Billboards that line the highways would read: "Got thimble?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Frank Gambale is great. Check him out. I love fusion. Let's make Frank Gambale the human equivalent of Agile guitars on this forum. All in favor of adopting Frank Gambale as the honorary HC guitar hero take one step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by Virgman Let's make Frank Gambale the human equivalent of Agile guitars on this forum. That's just plain wrong. Although, maybe he could be the next Vin Diesel or Chuck Norris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Knottyhed Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by Auggie Doggie That's just plain wrong. Although, maybe he could be the next Vin Diesel or Chuck Norris! Or David Hasselhoff, he's easily as iconic as Chuck, has great action hero credentials and has far more musical talent... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi2CfuqcUGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted March 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by jazzfuze While you're acting as proxy ask him why he felt the need to recently diss my good friend Shawn Lane. No proxy needed (I was merely acting as post proxy , people can read the forumw/o login In the words of Austin powers"you just did baby") or, if you fear he isn't reading- you can always write to him (it's not diificult) and air your grievances directly - that way you can discuss it with him w/o the need for the HC login quagmire I'm sure he will deny it but that's ok... good man! being able to address AND be willing to move beyond personal slights..a sometimes hard, but strong man's road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Don't you be talkin' no trash 'bout my man, Frank! I'll whup your ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted March 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 temporary lay-offs...good times easy credit rip-offs...good times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 I do the Internet for a living...here's some chain of events in a 'normal' issue like this... Frank (or someone respresenting him) would directly contact the so-called infringing party. This has to happen first...before ANYONE else gets involved. If nothing gets accomplished Frank would take a record of that communication and forward it to Harmony Central... he'd state his case, and then Harmony Central would either remove the thread/link, and warning their user of the implications. Or, they don't do anthing. If HC does nothing or says they aren't going to do anything...Frank then goes to the ISP/Hosting company that hosts the HC site...Franks presents all the communications to that point. In most every case the ISP will talk to they're customer, HC, and give them an ultimatum... But, someone who hosts such a large and traveled site such as HC has probably been in this process MANY times. So, they have protections built in to prevent their exposure related to Franks, or similar issues. So, now you have to either take it to court or rely on the ISP's understand and morals basically regarding the issues. Here's the big kicker though... Once Frank would start to sue the individual for infringing on his rights... Frank can come up with all sorts of cookoo stuff...like loss of wages. All Frank has to do I prove he was distrought enough that he couldn't work...or even that his wife couldn't work...or even that he couldn't work because his boss was distrought over the issue...whichever way you want to slice it he can start conjouring...that's why I said 'cookoo'. Then Frank can sue for those lose wages and they can also put a price on the distress, and recoup any doctor/mental health payments. So, the bottom line is...if someone removes that link or that thread...it's a hell of lot better than having to go up against a money bags record or publishing company who will try and tack everything they can on to rape you of your money. I speak from experience as I have seen this done many times in my field. And as an ISP, which the lot of us get bad mouthed in general on the Internet, I've seen this done from our perspective too. I can't count how many times our users records, information, web info have been requested by the FBI and other similar type of organizations. By law we have to give it up...then our customers aren't even contacted by us...sometimes in threatening type cases, or crimes, we never get the opportunity to even contact our customer directly. So, our customer gets contacted directly by a laywer or a law enforcement agency. Stuff like this happens, there is not 'freedom' in the Internet, especially as much as you think there is. It's just like confronting, or stealing, from someone in a parking lot...except, the cameras ALWAYS on and can be watched over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members typedeaF Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by PRSnotPOS Also shouldn't the incentive to make music be your love for it and not the money??? I'm not sticking up for piracy but I just think that if you are making music just to make money you should probably find a different career. Sorry but I have to agree here. I belive Salvidore said something to the effect that when you start to create art for the sole purpose of making money, you are no longer an artist. It was much more profound the way he said it, sorry for the horrible paraphrase. In the software dev industry there is a similar divide. Those that believe in open source and those that believe in closed. RMS (Richard Stallman, brilliant GNU developer) is one of those that believe that you shouldnt charge people for software because everything is a comglamaration of what you have learned and stolen off others, so its not really yours. Nuno Bettencourt said something similar in "You are what you eat." Being a musician is different for different people. For me, its about bringing some of who I am and what I have experienced to music and sharing my life with others. Its about playing live and having people relate to what your music is saying. Gambale has a huge fan base. He should be grateful that his music has reached so many people. No money cab buy that. I am sorry that he spends his entire life playing and cant get a normal job to make an income. I am sorry that P2P, newsgroups, etc constantly "rip him off". But you know what, his music just reached that many more people. I believe one of my favorite quotes is from Crossroads "All I ever wanted was for someone to say, 'He could really play... he was good.'" That to me is the ultimate payment I am looking for. But to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted March 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 It was much more profound the way he said it, sorry for the horrible paraphrase. I know that feeling, FWIW - I think it came across just fine [i'm glad we can, as a forum, discuss various facets of the issue] I belive Salvidore said something to the effect that when you start to create art for the sole purpose of making money, you are no longer an artist. 2 points for discussion (for everyone - so if a question is "you" it's not intented for a particular person..but the rhetorical "you") A) The modifier "sole" in the statement. Where does that leave us when one has a compound purpose? (Related : how does the concept of "craft" fit with a purely non-functional aesthetic view of "art"?How does the functional view of aesthetics - "art" as it is applied in engineering - fit in?) B) a little more specific to this particular event -- we are dealing with instructional material as opposed to "pure artistic work". How does/should that weigh in to the "reckoning"? In the software dev industry there is a similar divide. Those that believe in open source and those that believe in closed. RMS (Richard Stallman, brilliant GNU developer) is one of those that believe that you shouldnt charge people for software because everything is a comglamaration of what you have learned and stolen off others Some thoughts on IP law and "standing on the shoulders of giants" and stealing A copyright will only protect the particular expression of an idea, not the underlying ideaA patent protects an invention, not an idea and protects that invention for a limited time after which it is released to the public domain..it becomes part of "the known art" In there, we are provided with a mechanism for leveraging known art that isn't stealing (where theft would be the appropriation of currently owned IP) How does that fit in?Where are the strong point and the weak points in the law ?Where are the stron/weak points in the execution of those laws?(we are about to go through another round off patent reform - so it might be of particular iterest right now)? other thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted March 3, 2006 Members Share Posted March 3, 2006 Originally posted by typedeaF Sorry but I have to agree here. I belive Salvidore said something to the effect that when you start to create art for the sole purpose of making money, you are no longer an artist. It was much more profound the way he said it, sorry for the horrible paraphrase.In this instance, the material in question is an instructional video, which is not art, per se.In order for that video to exist, Gambale first had to spend years studying and practicing, and organizing his thoughts in a pedagogical fashion. While nobody can put a price tag on it, that doesn't mean it's worthless! Someone had to film it; that means cameras, microphones, editing equipment, studio time and space, etc. Someone also had to print it; that means tape, packaging, labor in assembly, etc. Someone had to distribute and ship it. Someone had to tell the world that it exists.It cost a lot of time, effort, and $$ to produce. If it's worth watching, then it's worth paying for. If someone doesn't think it merits financial compensation, then they don't buy it, and they shouldn't download it because it's free.Gambale has a huge fan base. He should be grateful that his music has reached so many people. No money cab buy that. I am sorry that he spends his entire life playing and cant get a normal job to make an income. I am sorry that P2P, newsgroups, etc constantly "rip him off". But you know what, his music just reached that many more people. Becoming a great musician is a lifelong pursuit, and takes a great deal of sacrifice and commitment. If that commitment does not receive any compensation, then that musician will have to devote his time and energy elsewhere just to put food on the table. That means their music will suffer...as will everyone's music, save for those already wealthy enough that they needn't work. Everyone loses in the long run. It's a very slippery slope, and one we're headed down already. People want new music, so they download it illegally, for free. To them, it's worth having enough to break the law, but not worth enough to pay for it. It's been devalued to an extreme. It's already become difficult and time-consuming to find good music; record labels, radio stations, MTV, etc., have done a good job in foisting the worst on us. Standards have never been lower, and they keep getting worse. All the wrong things are rewarded, and the $$ goes to all the wrong places. As people are realizing that they don't need to make the commitment and sacrifice to become 'successful', they don't bother. How can anyone blame them?--to put thousands of hours into music, trying to better yourself, only to realize that a talentless 17 year old blond girl with her belly button showing is going to cash a huge check at the end of the month, with nothing left over for legitimate musicians. People reap what they sow. They've been sowing McMusic for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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