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Playing in key and playing out of the box. Is there a right and wrong?


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Posted

I have been playing for many years. I have very little training in theory, but I think I have a very mature ear for music (as a listener).

 

Now, with that said, when I hear certain musical ideas some seem really comfortable. Too comfortable, if you know what I mean.

 

As a player, I have been trying to push myself out of the box. Here is the thing, I have been able to find notes outside of the key, so to speak. Notes that sound interesting in how they contrast to the rhythm. To my ears, they don't sound "sour." They sound unique and different and atypical to traditional tonal patterns and harmonies.

 

So my question is when is playing outside the box a valid artistic expression, and when is it just plain playing out of key?

 

If you bear with me, give the very beginning of this clip a listen. I throw some notes in there which I feel are "out of the box" in terms of tonal harmonies. I also return to those notes a couple times during the playing. The playing is mediocre for a hobbyist, but tonally speaking, am I just kidding myself or am I on the right track to trying to push my musical boundaries?

 

 

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getp...id=3898902&q=hi

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Posted

Here is another example. It comes in around 1 minute and 45 seconds of the clip. I kick on a pitchshifter pedal and I found some interesting and unique harmonies with the basic rhythm. I have been told I am out of key in this clip, but I don't really see it that way. Don't get me wrong, I know when I hit a "sour" note (And I do it often enough). I don't feel this harmony is sour, though, I find it rather interesting and unique to my ears.

Be completely honest with me, though. I would love to hear any and all constructive criticism. Here is the clip:

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3808048&q=hi

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Posted

I think one issue might be where to end a phrase. Remember your ear always wants to hear some kind of resolve. If you leave it hanging in the wrong place even a scale note will sound horrid.

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Posted

Theres one note in there that comes from the Dorain scale. You could easily modify that riff to fit the natual minor scale and not sound so out there. BUT if that dissonance is the effect you are after dont let theory and overanalyzing it rule supreme.

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Posted

Originally posted by ColorsoundKid

I have been playing for many years. I have very little training in theory, but I think I have a very mature ear for music (as a listener).


Now, with that said, when I hear certain musical ideas some seem really comfortable. Too comfortable, if you know what I mean.


As a player, I have been trying to push myself out of the box. Here is the thing, I have been able to find notes outside of the key, so to speak. Notes that sound interesting in how they contrast to the rhythm. To my ears, they don't sound "sour." They sound unique and different and atypical to traditional tonal patterns and harmonies.


So my question is when is playing outside the box a valid artistic expression, and when is it just plain playing out of key?


If you bear with me, give the very beginning of this clip a listen. I throw some notes in there which I feel are "out of the box" in terms of tonal harmonies. I also return to those notes a couple times during the playing. The playing is mediocre for a hobbyist, but tonally speaking, am I just kidding myself or am I on the right track to trying to push my musical boundaries?



 

 

This is why it took awhile for Monk to be recognized as the genius he was... Some people just thought he was playing the "wrong" notes. Dissonance and well-placed ugliness in music can be a great, creative thing... Taste is the key, or else a purposeful lack thereof.

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Posted

Check my lesson site http://lessons.mikedodge.com

Follow the lins to the Advnced Pentatonics Tutorial. I'll show you how to take a couple basic scale you already know and turn them into a chromatic scale pretty much.

There over 50 lessons in the tute dealing with many styles of music. I highly recommend it as once you get to understanding 12-tones...you'll have all the scales.

Also scpoe out the Melodic Minor Primer. That will show you a quick and easy way jazzer hit the altered tones in 7th chords.

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Posted

Originally posted by simeon

playing outside successfully involves using a harmonic system to give your outside notes a context of their own. this allows the listener to track the "outside" harmony against the "home" harmony. the most important thing is to resolve correctly.


there's a thread here you might like to read...




cheers


sim

 

 

Yeah, that's what I have been trying to do. I have been sidestepping with regular patterns. Just kick them up one way or the other and see if it connects.

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Posted

I think generally, if something sounds good, theory has some kind of rule to accomodate it somewhere. The thing is, theory isn't the law, its a guideline, and it was created around what sounded good. Therefore, if something sounds good, who cares what theory has to say? Go for it.:thu:

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Posted
Originally posted by ec437

I think generally, if something sounds good, theory has some kind of rule to accomodate it somewhere. The thing is, theory isn't the law, its a guideline, and it was created around what sounded good. Therefore, if something sounds good, who cares what theory has to say? Go for it.
:thu:



I think he's asking how to do it effectively, not whether theory allows it.

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