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Differnt sounds with just three pentatonic scales


Terje

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Posted

Let's use only these three pentatonic scales, the major pentatonic (and its relative minor), the dominant pentatonic and the altered pentatonic.

 

In C they are spelled: C D E G A (major/minor), C D E G Bb (dominant) and C D Eb G A (altered). Let's look at what can be done with them over two cadences, that cover most of what you'll ever encounter in for instance jazz, namely the ii-V-I and it's relative minor ii-V(alt.)-i, which in C would be:

 

| Dm7 | G7 | Cmaj7 | Cmaj7|

 

and

 

| Bm7b5 | E7 alt | Am7 | Am7 |

 

Let's first look at the real simple option. Over the ii-V-I in C major you can wail on just the G major pentatonic scale (G A B D E) since it hits all the pretty notes and no bad ones. It will actually sound very good over both Dm7 and Cmaj7 and might be your best choice for these two chords. However, it will tend to sound a bit boring over G7. Simply raising the E to F and play the G dominant pentatonic (G A B D F) over this chord will fix that problem.

 

There are several other ways to make that V chord stand out though. One is to play a tritone substitution here, so instead of G7 you're thinking (and playing) Db7. Use the Db majorpentatonic (DB EB F Ab Bb) over G7, it hits most of the altered notes you want and can be combined in a very nice way with two other major pentatonic scales by playing the C major pentatonic over Dm7 and the D major pentatonic (D E F# A B) over Cmaj7 where the F# will give you a lydian sound.

 

Another option... Use the Gamjor pentatonic for the Dm7 chord, slip to the Ab altered pentatonic (Ab Bb B EB F) over G7 and slip back to G major pentatonic for the Cmaj7 chord.

 

The minor cadence is trickier perhaps. Here's a simple approach though. For the Bm7b5 use the D altered pentatonic scale (D E F G), it nails the b5 (F) nicely. Use the F altered pentatonic (F G Ab C D) for the E7 chord, same trick as above, to get an altered sound. For the Am7 you can use the C major/A minor pentatonic. If the changes or the tempo are fast you can use just one of the two scales over both the ii and the V chord, it'll work just fine.

  • 2 weeks later...
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Posted

One of the most useful posts ever.

 

Seriously. I'm not a big user of pentatonics, although I do use them often enough, but I feel compelled to express my opinion regarding this bit of valuable information.

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"Three Pentatonics" is a also a great subject when it comes to Modal playing, like So What, Footprints, etc...

 

Thing of the three primary Minor Modes of the Major scale...Dorian, Phrygian, and Aeolian. Let's look at them compared to the Intevals of a Minor Pentatonic scale...

 

Minor Pent - R b3 4 5 b7 R

 

Dorian - R 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 R

Phrygian - R b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 R

Aeolian - R 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 R

 

If you look at those three scale you'll see they ALL contain the Minor Pentatonic scale...R b3 4 5 b7 R

 

The ONLY difference between the Interval of each scale is the 2 and the 6. Those are the ONLY variables...the other Intervals are common.

 

So, kick on a backing to So What (a great D Droian exercise) and use D Minor Pent, E Minor Pent, and A Minor Pent...

 

In the Key of C...which shares the same notes as D Droian....you can look at these three Pents as coming from:

 

D Minor Pent = D Dorian

E Minor Pent = E Phrygian

A Minor Pent = A Aeolian

 

You'll see by dealing with it this way will open your sound up to a lot of the great "So What" sound...instead just blowing up and down on confined Dorian scale.

 

Then move this concept up one fret when it moves from Dm to Ebm.

 

If you don't do this already, you're in a for a major eye opening sound!

 

I'll be back to explain Footprint.

 

Try this stuff though...it should NOT be over looked.

 

I'm thinging of doing a tutorial on some things I've come up with for So What and Footprints, some are from the song, but others are GREAT stepping stone from playing scales to improvising music.

 

Make sure you try these though because they are usedful as hell.

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Posted

 

Originally posted by Zetor

Newbie question: Wouldn't it be easier to use the C major pentatonic scale for the entire ii-V-I progression?

 

Yep, but that's not even going to get you in the vicinity of sounding good if you're going for a slightly jazzy sound. Anyway, I think that Terje's post was more about the ways of using a pentatonic that isn't the obvious one.

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Originally posted by Zetor

Newbie question: Wouldn't it be easier to use the C major pentatonic scale for the entire ii-V-I progression?

 

 

No, it wouldn't becasue the C major pentatonic has the note C in it that can clash in a bad way with the G7 chord, without actually leading anywhere, as the altered notes do.

 

The "easiest" thing to play as far as simple pentatonics go, over a ii-V-I in C is the G-major pentatonic. Not a bad note in sight! The only bad thing about it is that it will tend to sound boring over G7.

 

If you want to skip all the theory try this: Play the G-major pentatoinc over the whole ii-V-I in C and use chromatic passing tones to spice things up, use your ears as a guide.

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First of all, I knew that Terje was offering a more advanced way of navigating the changes. Bear in mind that his option is still way out my league, so I am looking for a more simple way.

 

But can you explain to me why C clashes with the G7? I mean, the progression is in the key of C, the chords are built from notes from the C major scale, so why use the G major pentatonic?

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Originally posted by Zetor

First of all, I knew that Terje was offering a more advanced way of navigating the changes. Bear in mind that his option is still way out my league, so I am looking for a more simple way.


But can you explain to me why C clashes with the G7? I mean, the progression is in the key of C, the chords are built from notes from the C major scale, so why use the G major pentatonic?

 

 

Actually, he's offering a simpler way of playing over the progression.

 

What he meant was, the C is a half step above the B note that's in the G7 chord.

 

But, he what he didn't tell you was...if you use that C to make a Gsus7 chord, replacing the B with the C...you get some new sounds under your skin.

 

So, the C isn't bad, if used properly.

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Okay, now I understand why playing a C over G7 might not be a good idea.

 

But one more question: Why should I use G major pentatonic?

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Originally posted by Zetor

Okay, now I understand why playing a C over G7 might not be a good idea.


But one more question: Why should I use G major pentatonic?

 

 

Playing C over G7 can be a good idea, if handled with care. The thing is that not only does the C clash with the B in G7, it is also the 4th in relation to the chord and really needs to resolve to B, it is a very strong tendency in our music. Raising that C to C# will actually make it easier to bear, even if it now is just a half-step away from D.

 

Remember: You can play any note over any chord, it is always a matter of how you handle it.

 

A friend of mine played me an example long ago of Dizzy Gillespie playing a major 3rd over a minor chord, a really awful sound generally, and he really leans on that major 3rd too, it's not like he's just passing it by. It sounds just fine when he does it though and the reason is that he knows what he's doing and where he's going with that note and he later resolves it in a smart way that makes the "bad" note sound really hip.

 

Why G major pentatonic? Because it is the C major scale with the two problem notes taken away (C over G7 and F over Cmaj7) and becasue for two of the chords at least, Dm7 and Cmaj7 we're left with really pretty extensions. The notes of G major pentatonic not only sound fine over Dm7 and Cmaj7, they sound really pretty.

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