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how do you do 'Arm weight' barre chords


raggety

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Posted

i read that you can use the weight of your arm to make barring easier but how?

 

also it said you can do it so you hardly need any pressure from your thumb, i find my hands cramping up so much from trying barres that i have just about given up trying them :(

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Posted

From a sitting position, and with the guitar firmly in the grasp of your lap, rib cage, and right arm above the elbow, it is effectively cantilevered to hold the force of your left hand pushing down on the fingerboard.

 

That about says it all.

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Posted

Yep. Hold your left index finger and thumb parallel to each other, about 2" apart, and just use your arm's weight to twist.

 

This cantilevers your index down on the strings, and your thumb doesn't get tired as quickly.

 

What to do about that pesky second knuckle joint muting strings is something you get to figure out for yourself if slightly curving the index doesn't help you...

 

Good luck!

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Posted

The previous suggestions were spot-on. One thing of note, though, is the fret-hand thumb should never exert it's own pressure on the guitar. Only two real exceptions:

 

1. Thumb-fretting a bass note. And that's pretty wishy-washy. Not generally considered "good technique" but acceptable to most people capable of thumb-fretting. Long fingered (thumbed) people!!

 

2. And as support for string-bends. Better to learn to bend without holding the guitar like a baseball bat, though. The reason for avoiding this is that the fret-hand wrist should never bend backwards, as this causes alignment problems in the wrist, and will lead to inevitable problems i.e. carpal-tunnel...

 

At BEST, the fret hand thumb should be used for two things:

 

1. As a tactile reminder of one's position on the neck of the guitar. A mere reminder, a landmark on the guitar, something to relate the fret-hand to the chord or scale at hand. Pressure should NEVER be exerted with the thumb, in this case. Consider it more like "feeling out" one of the position-dots on the fretboard, only on the back of the neck...

 

2. As a fulcrum. A pivot-point. This is probably where you are having problems. The thumb, for playing barre chords at least, is merely a fulcrum. A point for which the weight of the arm can pivot thus forming the finger-strength necessary for a barre chord.

 

Now, some tips to learn to relax that thumb. Learn to play without it! Maybe start with an A Major barre chord in the 5th position, only no thumb. Just let that thumb relax, hang free. Forget it's even there for a moment. Don't immediately try this with a G or F Major. The general looseness of the strings at higher positions will really help solidify this "excorsize". Strum the chord a few times without thumb support, then a few times with. Feel the difference. Generally learn to relax!

 

Also, lighter strings will help. Find the lightest gauge strings you can play with. Practice with the lights, and gradually work your way up. This can help with *any* type of guitar finesse. Like bodybuilding, which is really what this comes down to...

 

Don't ever give up, buddy! :thu: It just takes a while to get the feel. It *does* require using muscles you've never used before, and that in itself takes some getting used to. But, in a few months/weeks, you should be golden. Just pay attention to how your body reacts to different approaches to technique.

 

--John

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Posted

 

Originally posted by JcKoto

The previous suggestions were spot-on. One thing of note, though, is the fret-hand thumb should never exert it's own pressure on the guitar...

 

 

Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding here...

 

If I'm standing with my guitar and I go to play an A major chord at the 5th fret, I can't just use my fingers alone to exert pressure on the strings, I need my thumb in order to actually grip the neck and allow me to properly use my hand muscles to push the strings against the frets. Otherwise, the only way I can imagine playing that chord without my thumb, is to place the fingers in their proper position, then pull the strings towards the fretboard, and then use my picking hand arm as sort of a counter weight to keep the guitar from swinging back behind me.

 

Is there something I'm missing?

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Posted

 

Originally posted by Eye_Of_The_Liger

Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding here...


If I'm standing with my guitar and I go to play an A major chord at the 5th fret, I can't just use my fingers alone to exert pressure on the strings, I need my thumb in order to actually grip the neck and allow me to properly use my hand muscles to push the strings against the frets. Otherwise, the only way I can imagine playing that chord without my thumb, is to place the fingers in their proper position, then pull the strings towards the fretboard, and then use my picking hand arm as sort of a counter weight to keep the guitar from swinging back behind me.


Is there something I'm missing?

 

 

Well, yes in this case you would need to use the pick hand as a counter-weight.

 

The suggestion of playing barre chords without use of the thumb was to *try* to help illustrate the fact that one should never squeeze the instrument. By not actually using the thumb, a player can start to understand that the weight of the fingers is often sufficient for fretting strings.

 

One goal is to always use the least amount of muscle pressure so as to maintain relaxation, which will ultimately lead to efficient, effortless, and fluid playing.

 

--John

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Posted

 

Originally posted by JcKoto

Well, yes in this case you would need to use the pick hand as a counter-weight.


The suggestion of playing barre chords without use of the thumb was to *try* to help illustrate the fact that one should never squeeze the instrument. By not actually using the thumb, a player can start to understand that the weight of the fingers is often sufficient for fretting strings.


One goal is to always use the least amount of muscle pressure so as to maintain relaxation, which will ultimately lead to efficient, effortless, and fluid playing.


--John

 

 

So to sum up, it's not like you're not using the thumb at all when fretting notes/chords. The idea of the exercise is to develop the awareness of the excess tension that is often used to fret notes, and then to minimize it to the point where you're only using exactly as much as you need to. Right?

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Posted

ok i've been trying some of these suggestions, so far i have been using my body to balance against the guitar and lifting my elbow and opening out my shoulder too, which seems to work better.

 

but is lifting my elbow and opening out my shoulder bad technique???

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Posted

 

Originally posted by Eye_Of_The_Liger

So to sum up, it's not like you're not using the thumb at all when fretting notes/chords. The idea of the exercise is to develop the awareness of the excess tension that is often used to fret notes, and then to minimize it to the point where you're only using exactly as much as you need to. Right?

 

 

Yes, Exactly!!

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Posted

 

Originally posted by raggety

ok i've been trying some of these suggestions, so far i have been using my body to balance against the guitar and lifting my elbow and opening out my shoulder too, which seems to work better.


but is lifting my elbow and opening out my shoulder bad technique???

 

 

Well, that depends...

 

If it's causing any tension, discomfort, or if it impedes your ability to move chords around *gracefully*, then it's probably bad...

 

If it feels comfortable, but just a little "weird", then that's probably OK. Focusing on a particular aspect of technique will often expose previous bad habits, which can feel very awkward to break.

 

It will take a while to find the "sweet spot", and some experimentation is in order! Also, taking lessons from a good teacher would be absolutely invaluable. Not internet-lessons, but real life face to face lessons. Even just a couple can save you much trouble and time.

 

If lessons are out of the question, watching now others play can shed some insight on how to play with comfort. There's a ton of good examples out there, and although I don't have any particular links, I will tell you one thing: If the guitarist makes playing look easy, then try to emulate their technique. Effortless playing comes from good technique.

 

If they look like they're in pain, then forget it and move on.

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Posted

There are some very wise words in this thread. I once read an article on cyberfret that explained the importance of relaxation whilst playing. It was very interesting but tbh I've not adopted it - I tend to concentrate on simply getting the sound/fingering right. Maybe I will take a look at my playing technique.

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Posted

I don't really understand the use of arm weight for fingering at all.

 

Again, if I'm sitting, or even standing, with my guitar and I play a barre chord, say, A major at the 5th fret, and then I totally relax my arm, then that means I would be relying totally on finger/thumb strength to hold the chord to prevent my hand from slipping off the neck. Also, if the grip isn't sufficiently strong, I'll end up pulling the strings toward the floor, causing them to go out of tune when I strum the chord.

 

Is there something I'm missing here? :confused:

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Posted

Originally posted by Eye_Of_The_Liger

I don't really understand the use of arm weight for fingering at all.


Again, if I'm sitting, or even standing, with my guitar and I play a barre chord, say, A major at the 5th fret, and then I totally relax my arm, then that means I would be relying totally on finger/thumb strength to hold the chord to prevent my hand from slipping off the neck. Also, if the grip isn't sufficiently strong, I'll end up pulling the strings toward the floor, causing them to go out of tune when I strum the chord.


Is there something I'm missing here?
:confused:

 

shape the chord & then use your arm and your body to hold the guitar. your fretting hand should now be able to play the chord without even havinh the thumb in place.

 

(in theory anyway, i'm still working on it myself) :)

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Posted

Originally posted by raggety

ok i've been trying some of these suggestions, so far i have been using my body to balance against the guitar and lifting my elbow and opening out my shoulder too, which seems to work better.


but is lifting my elbow and opening out my shoulder bad technique???

 

If you go by string players, the rule is, any contortion that will allow your fingers to execute a passage, is proper technique. :)

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Posted

Originally posted by 1001gear

If you go by string players, the rule is,
any contortion that will allow your fingers to execute a passage, is proper technique
.
:)

 

Especially if said contortion is a gruesome snarl on the ol' puss ;)

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Posted

Wow! I have been playing 15 years +, could do a good Barre, but only by brute force with the thumb. Was just cruising this board and in 5 minutes I have revolutionized barre chord playing, I don't even need the thumb if my posture is set right. Jeeze, you'd think this would be a much more discussed technique than it is.

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Posted

Originally posted by MickSlick

Wow! I have been playing 15 years +, could do a good Barre, but only by brute force with the thumb. Was just cruising this board and in 5 minutes I have revolutionized barre chord playing, I don't even need the thumb if my posture is set right. Jeeze, you'd think this would be a much more discussed technique than it is.

 

 

yes indeed! i hadn't heard of it until i started trying classical style, until then i was just trying to use brute force to play barres. i'm still not there yet but its improving :)

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