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Old truth about the benefits of learning tunes


Terje

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Posted

If you learn that silly melody, that stupid pop tune or tv-jingle, then you can play it when someone asks for it and that may be all you have to do in order to win their hearts. Then they'll be more ready to listen to your wild free form jazz solos.

 

Yesterday, because I know it, I could play this well known childrens' tune when this little kid came up to me in the streets. Won his heart, his mother's heart and the hearts of the people who had gathered around and got their spare change.

 

I used to be such a snob as to what tunes I'd learn before. {censored} that!

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Posted

I feel very fortunate to no longer have to play to eat. Now I can eat to play because I have a regular job I can support myself and a family on.
It's a sad state of society when it can no longer appreciate art and musicians like yourself are forced to play kiddie tunes in the street for change.

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I think it's good to learn songs because I odn't like to reinvent the wheel.... different licks, chords, styles. Learn it, take it in, add them to your lick libraray.

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I feel very fortunate to no longer have to
play to eat
. Now I can
eat to play
because I have a regular job I can support myself and a family on.

It's a sad state of society when it can no longer appreciate art and musicians like yourself are forced to play kiddie tunes in the street for change.



I have a job. I do it during my free time because it's so much fun. I make more money in the streets than most people here do in clubs, during better hours and I meet cute little kids and their equally cute moms instead of the regular drunken bar crowd.

Art... one interesting part of the art of performing is to be able to entertain. I've overlooked it too much in the past, I'm beginning to realize the value of it these days, mainly because it's so much fun interacting with people.

If I'm not interested in entertaining people then why am I really playing for them? In that case I could just as well sit at home and play with myself. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just a different thing.

:)

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It's a sad state of society when it can no longer appreciate art

 

 

Is it? Art always has been in the eye/ear of the beholder IMO. Just cause someone cannot appreciate freeform jazz shouldn't make them less appreicative of a form of music (or other art)they can. Not to jump on you CBL just giving an option from someone who loves music for how it makes me feel not how hard it is (which is what I personally think when I hear freeform jazz or new classical music, music for the musician I call it since only a musician can listen to it and go..."gee that's really hard")

 

There's something to be said for giving the people what they want.

 

I think Terje has the best answer, art is entertainment and especially for musicians. Otherwise why would you ever play in front of someone?

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Terje

Sounds like you're happy. That's all that matters. I misread your post and got the impression that you felt compelled to play music that you didn't want to play. My mistake.

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Is it? Art always has been in the eye/ear of the beholder IMO. Just cause someone cannot appreciate freeform jazz shouldn't make them less appreicative of a form of music (or other art)they can. Not to jump on you CBL just giving an option from someone who loves music for how it makes me feel not how hard it is (which is what I personally think when I hear freeform jazz or new classical music, music for the musician I call it since only a musician can listen to it and go..."gee that's really hard")


There's something to be said for giving the people what they want.


I think Terje has the best answer, art is entertainment and especially for musicians. Otherwise why would you ever play in front of someone?

 

 

 

I'm not saying that art jazz is freeform stuff exclusively. That music is more fun to play than to listen to. I don't know that I'm qualified to define whether or not something is art I just know that simply entertaining sounds don't make something art.

 

I love Barney (the large kiddie Dinosaur) cause he gives me 30 more minutes a day to practice while he entertains my 17 month old son. I don't think the "I love you" song is art though. It's definitely entertainment, especially for toddlers no doubt about it. There is also something significant about playing a tune that grandma knows. I just don't know if I can agree that entertaining sounds make art. The musak I listen to in the elevator can't be art. Can it?

 

There has to be a middle ground between Barney tunes and Dave Leibman's free jazz. I don't want the job of being "god of the music universe" and deciding what that is though.

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I have an buddy that is an old time pro player (piano). He told me to learn tunes in many categories: Christmas tunes, patriotic tunes, children's tunes, ethnic tunes, come up with a bunch of categories and get a couple tunes in each. he said that it comes in VERY handy.

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I think the thing that a lot of people miss...this is words of wisdom from a man who missed it also when he was a young guitar slinger...they don't put as much time into singing as they do their guitar player.

 

In the end I wish I was half the guitarist I am and twice the singer I am.

 

For one...I could still play out when ever I wanted whether it be solo or with a band. You'll find as time goes on if you're in a band trying to be popular that you ALWAYS need a singer unless you can do it yourself. And as time goes on it'll bite you since you ALWAYS have to have someone there and it's just NOT ENOUGH being a good guitarist.

 

Sure if you just want to do "one set a night"/open mic gigs as a solo guitarist, you'll be fine but, if you want to reach more people...LEARN TO SING! as best you can.

 

How many of you (non singing-guitarists) have sat at a campfire and just played when everyone wants American Pie or some other folky sing along song. Personally I try to get everyone singing as a group for fun...but I have some friends who are as good of singers as players...and they kill in almost every situation.

 

As a matter of fact, after my son takes a year of guitar lessons (for reading), I'm getting him a year of singing lessons...whether he can do it naturally or not, he's going to be doing it better than if he didn't have lessons...

 

after you've played the circuit for years, a 40 year old guy can knock down some SERIOUS bucks doing a solo gig...if you can't sing...that guy ain't gonna be you.

 

Get over it and start learning how to sing today.

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Posted

I think you have to play to your audience.

I think of The Blues Brothers in that regard...what kind of music to you play here? Both kinds Country and Western. Yet they ended up playing what the people wanted even though it wasn't what they planned on.

Playing great blues won't go over well with a group of Black Metal fans no matter how well you play it. As a good musician (that I am sure you are) you have to play to the level (?) of art/entertainment you are most comfortable with. But maybe with the wrong audience, like the blues brothers you have to adjust.

I unfortunately am really not qualified to discuss this from any standpoint other than a music lovers standpoint since I can hardly be called a musician.

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I think the thing that a lot of people miss...this is words of wisdom from a man who missed it also when he was a young guitar slinger...they don't put as much time into singing as they do their guitar player.


In the end I wish I was half the guitarist I am and twice the singer I am.


For one...I could still play out when ever I wanted whether it be solo or with a band. You'll find as time goes on if you're in a band trying to be popular that you ALWAYS need a singer unless you can do it yourself. And as time goes on it'll bite you since you ALWAYS have to have someone there and it's just NOT ENOUGH being a good guitarist.


Sure if you just want to do "one set a night"/open mic gigs as a solo guitarist, you'll be fine but, if you want to reach more people...LEARN TO SING! as best you can.


How many of you (non singing-guitarists) have sat at a campfire and just played when everyone wants American Pie or some other folky sing along song. Personally I try to get everyone singing as a group for fun...but I have some friends who are as good of singers as players...and they kill in almost every situation.


As a matter of fact, after my son takes a year of guitar lessons (for reading), I'm getting him a year of singing lessons...whether he can do it naturally or not, he's going to be doing it better than if he didn't have lessons...


after you've played the circuit for years, a 40 year old guy can knock down some SERIOUS bucks doing a solo gig...if you can't sing...that guy ain't gonna be you.


Get over it and start learning how to sing today.

 

 

I deal with my non-singing in 2 ways. First, I married my vocalist (which means double pay for our gigs) amd Second, I learn every tune chord-melody so I don't sound like a "strummy idiot" (easier for my style- jazz). These aren't exactly solutions as much as coping mechanisms.

You're right gen but I hate my voice. I sound like Elmo on Crack!

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Posted

There's something to be said for giving the people what they want.

 

 

And the interesting thing is that giving people what they want isn't necessarily the same as giving them what they expect.

 

We're lazy sometimes. When we think of something to play that the audience might like we just think of what's going on right now on the crappy commercial radio.

 

People have better taste than that. A classic melody is a classic melody, even if it's 60 years old. So, you wanna play jazz in the streets, perhaps. Well, there's nothing wrong with Summertime and there are literally thousands of ways that you could make it into something interesting for both yourself and the audience.

 

After you've played Summertime you can rip like a maniac on your (short) free-form-hurricane-solo and they'll be amazed by that too. Then you'll probably have to play something they know or they'll leave, but that might be what you want them to do because you want to draw a new crowd.

 

Anyway, there are so many great songs out there that you can play that people will love, even if it's not Sweet Home Alabama. This is also one of the great things with playing in the streets, you meet just about everyone and there will be someone in that crowd who likes what you do.

 

Knowing lots of tunes is like having more colors to paint with. Any tune can be made into something great by a great performer, it's really up to you to create art in the moment.

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In the end I wish I was half the guitarist I am and twice the singer I am.

 

 

This is so true. Working on your voice will be a better way to spend your time if it is gigs you want.

 

However, I did make most of my money on Sunday from playing instrumentals.

 

I'm getting better at that other art, the art of performing. I'm not good at it yet but I'm better than I used to be and that pays off too, not just economically.

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You're right gen but I hate my voice. I sound like Elmo on Crack!

 

 

I used to sound like that and I used to hate my voice. I went to see a vocal teacher and he opened it up for me, or rather, he taught me how to open up myself.

 

Trust me, if I could get better at singing, at least to the level where I'm now comfortable with it, so can you.

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Posted


I'm getting better at that other art, the art of performing. I'm not good at it yet but I'm better than I used to be and that pays off too, not just economically.

 

 

That's my point, you don't realize it yet, but once you get old enough where you don't have "time for a group thing" but you still play at your house in your free time, you are going to realize that the free time you have could be used gigging...but since you don't sing as well as you play...and you don't have time for a group-thing..you probably won't be playing out too much after you 30 and especially in your 40's.

 

And, if you don't do it now...well time creeps up VERY fast...it'll turn out tha you never did it.

 

Plus, what good are your little melodies if you can't sing them. And just think, if you were singing anywhere near the level you're are playing at you might not be getting coins thrown your way, but maybe a nights worth of pay.

 

Singing does make a difference, and it will make a difference in your guitar playing too.

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Plus, what good are your little melodies if you can't sing them.



Don't say that! :)

Knowing just how to play that childrens' song might be saves you.

Two years ago I was playing in the streets and two young girls came by. They weren't that interested in me or my playing but they were waiting for their parents. They were probably about 7 or 8 years old. Theyy're very honest at that age.

They asked me for some songs, well known childrens' songs. I cursed myself for not knowing tyhe tunes but... I went home and learnt them! Two weeks later we have this gig, private party sort of thing. They have this competition, the woman who won it got to sing with the band.

We had been playing blues for the most part up until that point. How great do you think the chance is that someone is gonna ask to sing a well known blues tune? THen I remembered that I knew this childrens' song, asked her if she knew it. Sure, she knew the first verse. Is D an OK key for I ask as I start playing it, while the bass player is listening in to what I'm doing to hear where the changes were.

We played behind her a full verse with full band backing. Saved the gig. Won the audience over on our side.

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