Let me expand on the ideas in the "simple improvisation thread"

[Terje]

I said in the thread that to keep things simple I'd stick to only three things to do.

 

 

 

By creating a bass line, or whatever you want to call it because it doesn't have to be in a bass range at all so we can simple see it as a counterpoint line to the melody, makes you connect the arpeggios into smooth lines and gives you an idea of what scales you can use too.

[CBLjazz]

I said in the thread that to keep things simple I'd stick to only three things to do.

 

 

Why constrain yourself to "simple"? Imrovisation is not simple. Ask anyone who can't do it well.

[Virgman]

Improvisation is a fascinating topic.

 

I'm really into it.

[Terje]

 

Why constrain yourself to "simple"? Imrovisation is not simple. Ask anyone who can't do it well.

 

 

Simple isn't easy. Why make it complicated? It's enough that it's complex already, no need to complicate it.

 

Now, enough semantics. Please feel free to offer your ideas on the topic. Your ideas are most often very interesting and valid.

 

I'll add something right away n arpeggios. There are two ways you can practice playing arpeggios over a tune for the purpose of later being able to improvise on it. Either the way I've already said, from the root. This is more a kind of comping but it's really valid, but you will jump around a bit. Nothing wrong in that, it'll open up the instrument and help you make those jumps as you improvise.

 

You can also stay in one position or place and play all your arpeggios in whatever inversion possible from that position. I'd first suggest the position you'reusing to play the melody.

[blumonk]

you ruined your reputation with your last thread, i will not forgive you.

[Jawbreakerr]

you ruined your reputation with your last thread, i will not forgive you.

 

[CBLjazz]

 

Simple isn't easy. Why make it complicated? It's enough that it's complex already, no need to complicate it. Now, enough semantics. Please feel free to offer your ideas on the topic. Your ideas are most often very interesting and valid.

 

 

This is not a matter of word choice. Improv is complex already- without any help from me.

If I did what you wrote in your posts on improv, and couldn't already improvise, I STILL wouldn't be able to.

 

You can play arpeggios-scales-basslines anywhere on the guitar till you faint and you still won't be able to improvise. If you can already improvise those things can help you but in themselves they are worthless tasks.

 

Understanding Improvisation

 

You will not be able to improvise in any style untill you understand how to create melodies.

 

All improvisation should start with melodic embellishment. Melodic embellishment is adding to (the notes of an existing melody), taking away from (the notes of an existing melody), or changing the rhythm of an already existing melody. You can do the above 3 tasks individually or in any combination.

 

When I taught improv we all started with "twinkle twinkle little star"

I had students play twinkle twinke millions of times using eacch of the 3 techniques of embellishment. In classical music- the harmonic basis of all western styles, this is called "variations". Classical dudes often wrote their improv's down and called them variations. I love Sor's Mozart Variations (Classical Guitar).

 

Improv on Twinkle Twinkle- Variations on a Theme

 

[astring]

hey how about a more in depth look at the bassline part. Thanks

[the-good-way]

I said in the thread that to keep things simple I'd stick to only three things to do.

 

[Terje]

 

hey how about a more in depth look at the bassline part. Thanks

 

 

Bas(s)ically the idea is simple: For every bar you have four beats. The first beat gets the root (or the 5th if you have the chord going on for more than two bars) the last beat gets a chromatic leading tone to the next root and the two beat in between get either chord tone, scale tone or a combination of both or maybe a chromatic passing tone there too if it sounds right.

 

Most of the time it would simply be root, scale/chord tone, scale/chord tone, chromatic leading tone to the next root. What's the benefit of this? Well, the lines will be very smooth while still having some chromaticism and they will outline the chords very clearly at the same time. If you instead played scales that fit the chord and tried to just connect those smoothly you'd miss out on the outlining of the chords and the chromatic leading tones.

 

Sometimes you'll notice how that chromatic leading tone really can be, and perhaps should be a chord tone. Like when you're going from the I to the IV. In C you could be playing C E G for the first three beats of a C chord and then back to E before going to the F chord. The same thing happens when you go from the V to the I, the B in G7 leads so nicely to the root in the C chord.

 

And BTW, the reason I'm calling it a bass line is that if it was played in that range it would work as a bass line. A counter melody that does not give the root at the start for each bar will not. It may be a very good, perhaps even better counter melody for this reason, but it won't work as a bass line. What's good with learning a bass line in the wrong range then? Well, assuming that you learn it on guitar then you could actually play it on bass too since the tuning is the same.

[Terje]

This is not a matter of word choice. Improv is complex already- without any help from me.

If I did what you wrote in your posts on improv, and couldn't already improvise, I STILL wouldn't be able to.

 

You can play arpeggios-scales-basslines anywhere on the guitar till you faint and you still won't be able to improvise. If you can already improvise those things can help you but in themselves they are worthless tasks.

 

Understanding Improvisation

 

You will not be able to improvise in any style untill you understand how to create melodies.

 

All improvisation should start with melodic embellishment. Melodic embellishment is adding to (the notes of an existing melody), taking away from (the notes of an existing melody), or changing the rhythm of an already existing melody. You can do the above 3 tasks individually or in any combination.

 

When I taught improv we all started with "twinkle twinkle little star"

I had students play twinkle twinke millions of times using eacch of the 3 techniques of embellishment. In classical music- the harmonic basis of all western styles, this is called "variations". Classical dudes often wrote their improv's down and called them variations. I love Sor's Mozart Variations (Classical Guitar).

 

Improv on Twinkle Twinkle- Variations on a Theme

 

Hey man, you're really adding to this thread now! Thanks!

[CBLjazz]

 

hey how about a more in depth look at the bassline part. Thanks

 

 

Terje was very thorough but here's another way to look at it. I'm big on providing multiple examples.

 

Jazz Basslines

I have general guidelines for playing basslines. First you start by playing 2 note chords for each of the chords in a jazz blues. The 2 note voicings are called guidetone voicings. Your left hand jumps around like a circus acrobat so get ready for a workout.

 

Jazz Blues

 

G7| C7 | G7 | Am7 D7|

C7 | C7| G7 | Bm7 E7 |

Am7 | D7|Bm7 E7 | Am7 D7|

***each chord gets 4 beats unless there are 2 chords in a measure and then each chord gets 2 beats

 

Walking Basslines-chords on a Jazz Blues with 2 note voicngs (Guidetone voicings)

 

G7

E-----x------------------------------

B-----x------------------------------

G-----4-----------------------------

D-----3-----------------------------

A-----x---------1----2-------------

E-----3-----5-----------------------

***each tab cell is 4 beats of the blues (1 measure)

 

C7

E-----x-----------------------------

B-----x-----------------------------

G-----3----------------------------

D-----2----------------------------

A-----3-----------------------------

E-----x------0--1---2---------------

 

G7

E-----x------------------------------

B-----x-----------------------------

G-----4----------------------------

D-----3-----------------------------

A-----x---2-5------------------------

E-----3-------3--------------------

 

Am7 D7

E-----x----------x------------------

B-----x----------x-----------------

G----5-----------5-----------------

D----5-----------4-------------------

A----x----6------5-----2-------------

E----5-----------x------------------

 

C7

E---x-------------------------------

B---x-------------------------------

G---3------------------------------

D---2-------------------------------

A---3-------------------------------

E---x----0---1--2-----------------

 

C7/G= C7 with G in the bass

E-----x------------------------------

B-----x-----------------------------

G-----3-----------------------------

D-----2-----------------------------

A-----x-----2-3-4------------------

E-----3-----------------------------

 

G7/D= G7 with D in the bass

E------x-----------------------------

B-----x-----------------------------

G-----4----------------------------

D-----3-----------------------------

A-----5---7--5---3------------------

E-----x-----------------------------

 

Bm7 E7

E-----x--------x-------------------

B-----x--------x-------------------

G-----7--------7-------------------

D-----7--------6------------------

A-----x---8----7----------------

E-----7---------------4-----------

 

Am7

E-----x-----------------------------

B-----x----------------------------

G-----5---------------------------

D-----5----------------------------

A-----x------3--4-------------------

E-----5---7-----------------------

 

D7

E------x-----------------------------

B------x----------------------------

G------5---------------------------

D------4---------------------------

A------5---7---5---3---------------

E-------x----------------------------

 

Bm7 E7

E-----x-----------x------------------

B----x------------x----------------

G----7------------7----------------

D----7------------6----------------

A----x-----8------7-------------------

E----7------------x-------6---------

 

Am7 D7

E------x--------x------------------

B------x--------x------------------

G-----5---------5------------------

D-----5---------4-------------------

A-----x----6----5------------------

E-----5---------------4--------------

 

G7 (last chord- repeat)

E-----x------------------------------

B-----x------------------------------

G-----4-----------------------------

D-----3-----------------------------

A-----x-----------------------------

E-----3------------------------------

 

Guidelines for Walking bass-guidetone Voicings

So as you can see the bassline stays on the 5th and 6th string and the guidetone-voicings stay on the 3rd and 4th string.

 

THEORY REVIEW

GuIdetones are the 3rd and 7th of any chord

 

Memorize this and put it in every key- begin to vary it and you'll be comfortable creating Walking bass-chords on the spot

 

To me this stuff doesn't sound that good. I'd much rather have a bass player but it sure sounds good in a music store when your trying out guitars and you will definitely increase your "chick magnetism" by playing this around hot girls.

 

You'll be like a beer ad or a sports car commercial. Chicks love it and isn't that why we all play guitar anyway?

[Terje]

Playing two note voicings using only guide tones is easy and together with a bass it sounds very full. In fact, you could comp a soloist like that all night, together with a bass player of course. On my balalajka I have only three strings, this is the comping I do, two note voicings, almost 95% of the time when I comp.

 

I might add one thing. Sometimes the 7th really gets in the way of the melody. Then you can either play the root or the 6th. If the 3rd gets in the way then the composer probably thought about that alread and wrote a sus chord and then you can just raise the 3rd a halfstep.

 

Doing both parts yourself is much harder and will never really sound as good unless you're Joe Pass (and maybe not even then). I'd learn the two things separately and learning the guide tones to each chord ina song is also a great way to get material for later improvisations.