Members bdemon Posted July 9, 2007 Members Posted July 9, 2007 Been playing for over twenty years, I'm a lefty playing right hand guitar, so I got plenty of legato speed happening. Can speed pick single string riffs pretty well, but sweeping or running through scales is just brutal as I go further past 100bpm, my right hand tenses up. Been working some of Auggie's speed series, so I can bust through pentatonics in 16th note clusters (four 16ths for each note) at 160-180 pretty well. Can even break that down to two 16ths per note at slightly slower speeds, but one note at a time? Too much tension, the speed drops way down. Also been after some Gambale two-string sweeps that I can keep together at 16ths until around 110-120. As my speed goes up in sweeping I need to rest my picking hand on the lower strings to control the angle. Good idea or bad? I've tried the technique of pushing past the speed comfort zone and backing it down a bit, pushing faster and so on. I feel like there's progress some days and still at square one on other days. Been at this since last fall--not to mention previous metronome binges over the years. Not looking to compete with Gilbert and Yngwie, but I'd like the picking to be BETTER!
Members Big Muff Posted July 9, 2007 Members Posted July 9, 2007 These exercises help a lot with picking: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/p/paul_gilbert/intense_rock_tab.htm Also, what's your technique like? Do you anchor your pinky when you pick, or rest your palm against the bridge, or anything like that? I know everybody is different, but for me, anchoring my pinky against the pickguard really helps to steady my hand and pick more efficiently. Some people call it bad technique, but it works for John Petrucci and Michael Angelo Batio, so it can't be THAT bad. I wish I could help you more, but I have only been playing for about 6 years and my picking hand still sucks pretty badly. It must be hell trying to make your right hand pick fast, I know I would suck even worse if I tried to pick with my left hand. Michael Angelo is also a lefty playing right handed (or sometimes both at the same time ), and he practiced constantly for about 10 hours a day to get his picking up to speed. He can pick 16th's at about 225 BPM, so there is hope for you. I guess the old "practice, practice, practice" rule applies here. These exercises help a lot also: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/s/steve_vai/10-hour_guitar_workout_tab.htm
Members Knottyhed Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 I've improved my right hand picking dramitically over the last year... you've just got to stop trying to go so fast (at least for a while) and break down your technique. Practice with a metronome, do as many different alt picking exercises as you can find. Work on some classical pieces that really challenge your technique... start much slower than you can currently go, if you're constantly going as fast as possible you aren't going to be able to improve your efficiency. I also found that generally speaking the thicker the pick, the faster you can go... I've ended up using 3mm 'big stubby' picks now. Lastly watch some video's of really fast pickers like Ywngie, Eric Johnson etc. and see how they pick. Progress with picking tends to go in fits and starts, and you will find that you often feel like you're back-pedalling because once you're warmed up you'll be picking much faster, so you pick the guitar up the next day and can't pick as fast as you could at the end of the last practice...
Members piesore Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 If you're tensing up, trying to play faster is just going to make things worse, you're going to ingrain that tension inside you, I'd really focus on relaxing and playing confidently at whatever speed your comfortable with...it always annoyed me when people said this, but speed will come later if you can do that. I had the problem of thinking if I just kept pushing myself speed-wise my tension problems would go away, but after years of doing this, I eventually realized tension was the problem. I had to spend about 6 months to a year undoing my bad tension habits and now I see why some poeple can play blazingly fast: because they're completely relaxed while doing it. I've found even playing with my eyes closed helps, because it makes me more aware of what's going on in the rest of my body instead of having my eyes locked on my fingers. I found everything from my feet, to shoulders, to face would tense up at different times.
Members WhiskeyClone Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 Don't work on speed. Ever. Only work on accuracy and efficiency. Speed will improve automatically as you improve your technique.
Members Knottyhed Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 Don't work on speed. Ever. Only work on accuracy and efficiency. Speed will improve automatically as you improve your technique. You can't have one without the other, but it certainly hasn't been my experience that only working on accuracy will develop speed. You have to do both i've found. It's easy to be accurate when you're going slow, if you don't ever bump up the metronome you're never going to learn to maintain that accuracy fast. I agree that it's bad to spend extended periods of time playing at a tempo that's faster than the one you play at with good technique as it'll develop tension and other bad habits.
Members bdemon Posted July 10, 2007 Author Members Posted July 10, 2007 You can't have one without the other, but it certainly hasn't been my experience that only working on accuracy will develop speed. You have to do both i've found. It's easy to be accurate when you're going slow, if you don't ever bump up the metronome you're never going to learn to maintain that accuracy fast. I usually start at 80bpm and push it up in 5bpm increments after running a few different patterns. Depending on what I'm working on determines where the tension sets in. Two-string sweeps or single note patterns in 16th notes get tense around 120-130. I've been pushing to 140, playing sloppy, then bringing the speed back down where it's controlled. You folks think I should just stay at 115 (the edge of too much tension) indefinitely? I've been using stubby picks for about sixteen years, the little ones, but they're thick. I wonder if I should change...another challenge because I'm so used to them.
Members Knottyhed Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 I usually start at 80bpm and push it up in 5bpm increments after running a few different patterns. Depending on what I'm working on determines where the tension sets in. Two-string sweeps or single note patterns in 16th notes get tense around 120-130. I've been pushing to 140, playing sloppy, then bringing the speed back down where it's controlled. You folks think I should just stay at 115 (the edge of too much tension) indefinitely? I've been using stubby picks for about sixteen years, the little ones, but they're thick. I wonder if I should change...another challenge because I'm so used to them. Nope, just don't try going past 120 until 115 feel comfortable. An idea (not mine) that i've used in the past is to half the speed it all falls apart and build up from there, incrementing between practice sessions. E.g in your case, spend a practice session practicing alt picking at 60bpm, concentrate on being as efficient as possible and try to really feel the pick gliding off the string (you don't want it to catch). Next session warm up at 60 then bump that 'nome up to 70, next session start 60 work up to 80, next session start 60 go to 90 - each time concentrate on accuracy and good technique. By the time you get back to 120 you should find you can go past it... so next session go to 130, then try 140. When you hit a wall again, repeat (i.e. half the tempo work back up). Don't be afraid to experiment with pick grip/angle/technique/type of pick. You will probably find it is essential to experiement to get over those humps sometimes. There's also something to be said for occassionally pushing it and deliberately trying to play faster than you can (John Petrucci recommends this)... just don't make it the bulk of your practice. I'm at the point now where i'm pretty comfortable with 16th's around 170-180, I've not really tried to get past that as I don't come accross situations where my lack of speed frustrates me anymore - not to say i don't still get frustrated by my crappy note selection LOL
Members Yngtchie Blacksteen Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 Don't work on speed. Ever. Only work on accuracy and efficiency. Speed will improve automatically as you improve your technique.Shawn Lane disagrees with you.
Members gennation Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 I did the last year strapped to the metronome. A couple of things I find that helps me regain my speed from day to day is: Set the metronome at a mellow speed, for me it's about 100bpm, play only one string, and open string. "Play it" to the metronome varying your picking pattern. Try to go from triplets, to quarter note, to 16th, to...etc...eventually try playing drum march rhythms on that one string to the metronome. This gives your right hand a chance to get in the swing of things. Another is, don't be in such a hurry to move from string to string, IOW in your "3nps patterns" stay on one string twice as long like... E------------------------------------------------------------------- B------------------------------------------------------------------- G------------------------------------------------4--5--7--4--5--7-- etc... D------------------------------4--5--7--4--5-7--------------------- A-----------3--5--7--3--5--7--------------------------------------- E--3--5--7---------------------------------------------------------- Or down... E---7--5--3---------------------------------------------------------- B------------7--5--3--7--5--3---------------------------------------- G-------------------------------7--5--4--7--5--4-------------------- D--------------------------------------------------7--5--4--7--5--4--etc... A-------------------------------------------------------------------- E-------------------------------------------------------------------- Staying on the same string for a bit will allow your right hand to "feel" more comfortable. Next, try this at about 80bpm, start with four notes per string and work your way to only two notes per string...hopefully with time you'll get it over 100-110bpm...this is tricky at higher speeds.... E----------------------3-3-3-3---------------------------------3-3-3-3 B---------------------------------------------------------------------- G------------0-0-0-0-------------0-0-0-0------------0-0-0-0----------- D----------------------------------------------------------------------- A----------------------------------------------------------------------- E---3-3-3-3--------------------------------3-3-3-3--------------------- And run it back down and up (up and down) over and over. Three G notes with string skipping. This will teach your hand how to move from lower strings to higher string and vice versa. This will make you right hand feel invincible. After those warm ups, THEN get into your basic chromatic, 3nps, etc...exercises. The next thing that helps YOU as a player is to play something you play fast, but sloppy. Now play it slow...did you notice anything...I guarantee you CHANGED your picking technique between playing fast and slow. This is not good for your technique...until you notice. This is called "Fast Technique v/s Slow Technique". SO MANY people do this... NOW, try working that lick SLOW but with your Fast Technique instead. Push the metronome until you are using your Fast Technique and it STARTS to sound sloppy. Now move the metronome back a notch or too and play the lick with your Fast Technique at a comfortable pace. Move the metronome up as you are able to...learn to smooth out the sloppiness but using the SAME technique. People who practice a completely different technique slow, ten blow it out of the water with their fast technique have a HUGE prbably bridging the gap between practice and playing...answer this... Let's say you practice at home all afternoon working up a lick using so-called "perfect technique", then you get to the gig/reheasal/jam...do you STILL use that same perfect-technique...hell no you don't...you use your Fast Technique... learn how to notice and mature the Fast Technique...it'll get you farther quicker and in the long run. Another thing you can do it just turn the metronome on at a brisky pace, maybe 120bpm, and just PLAY to it. You don't necessarily have to play fast, but play consistent, try playing things out of your norm and covering them in time, try arpeggiated picking, single string, string skipping, pick a melody and flow with it, etc... Don't get too bogged down with this exercise and that exercise...just play. That's what you're going to need to really do when it comes down to it...PLAYING WITH the metronome will get your hands in sync more than anything...when it comes to music. Someday I'll tell you my story about my guitar lesson with Tony Macalpine
Members WhiskeyClone Posted July 10, 2007 Members Posted July 10, 2007 You can't have one without the other, but it certainly hasn't been my experience that only working on accuracy will develop speed. You have to do both i've found. It's easy to be accurate when you're going slow, if you don't ever bump up the metronome you're never going to learn to maintain that accuracy fast. Of course you have to bump up the metronome... what I mean is you will automatically play faster when your fingers know what to do. You can't just move your fingers faster and expect it to still sound clean. You have to be focusing on the mechanics of the technique so your fingers can comfortable and relaxedly play the next note. There are subtle differences in the movements of your fingers between playing something at 100bpm and playing the same thing at 180bpm; it isn't just doing the same thing faster; to reach those speeds you have to identify the most efficient way to make each motion. For years, I thought the way to get faster was to just attempt, repeatedly, to move my fingers fast enough to hit all the right notes at a higher tempo. I was happy to discover that if I work on playing extremely cleanly (not quickly), I can bump up the metronome and suddenly its easy to play the same thing faster.
Members Knottyhed Posted July 11, 2007 Members Posted July 11, 2007 Someday I'll tell you my story about my guitar lesson with Tony Macalpine Tell it now! I like the fast/slow technique idea... it's definately important to practice slow using the technique you use to play fast - MABatio says the same thing (and as much as I hate his music, he can alt pick *damn* fast). I would say though I've found I've had to change my 'fast technique' to go faster if that makes sense?
Members Knottyhed Posted July 11, 2007 Members Posted July 11, 2007 I can bust through pentatonics in 16th note clusters (four 16ths for each note) at 160-180 pretty well. Can even break that down to two 16ths per note at slightly slower speeds, but one note at a time? Too much tension, the speed drops way down. Actually it sounds like your picking technique isn't really the issue, you can pick like that at 180bpm and stay relaxed, but you can't run through single notes. Sounds like a syncronisation problem between right/left hands to me... and possible psychological factors (i.e. you're trying too hard). Advice would still be more or less the same though, slow it down and work back towards your current sloppy speed. Stay relaxed. Make sure you're using your 'fast' picking technique when playing slow.
Members Santuzzo Posted July 11, 2007 Members Posted July 11, 2007 Been playing for over twenty years, I'm a lefty playing right hand guitar, so I got plenty of legato speed happening. Can speed pick single string riffs pretty well, but sweeping or running through scales is just brutal as I go further past 100bpm, my right hand tenses up. Been working some of Auggie's speed series, so I can bust through pentatonics in 16th note clusters (four 16ths for each note) at 160-180 pretty well. Can even break that down to two 16ths per note at slightly slower speeds, but one note at a time? Too much tension, the speed drops way down. Also been after some Gambale two-string sweeps that I can keep together at 16ths until around 110-120. As my speed goes up in sweeping I need to rest my picking hand on the lower strings to control the angle. Good idea or bad? I've tried the technique of pushing past the speed comfort zone and backing it down a bit, pushing faster and so on. I feel like there's progress some days and still at square one on other days. Been at this since last fall--not to mention previous metronome binges over the years. Not looking to compete with Gilbert and Yngwie, but I'd like the picking to be BETTER! Hey, fellow righty playing lefty. I have exactly the same issue, my picking is too slow. I have been playing for quite long, too, and I used to practice alternate picking a lot picking solely from the wrist. That way I never got any speed. Just 3 or 4 years ago I changed my picking technique to picking from the elbow (a la Vinnie Moore) and that way I can pick much faster, still not super fast, but I'm improving. But still I have to work extremely hard for any speed improvement in my picking. Check out this thread in the amp forum, it's a sort of group-effort thing working on picking (using Paul Gilbert's "Technical Difficulties"): http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1671848 Would be cool if you joined that thread. Folks are motivating each other and helping each other out, it's really great ! Lars
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