Members Knottyhed Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 Hi, I've just started giving lessons to a friend of mine, I've got him going with strumming and open chords. We're now moving on to the dreaded 'F' chord and I'm also trying to get him to do bar chords... He doesn't seem able to do it, I show him where to put his fingers etc. but no matter what we try he can't strum it without muting all the notes and his fingers getting in the way of strings they aren't fretting. So... how do the proper guitar teachers teach this? Is just a matter of waiting until the student has the required hand strength, flexibiltiy and coordination or is there some more effective way of teaching it than telling them what to do and keep sending them away to practice until they manage to do it?
Members sumpm1 Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 If the strings are buzzing, either he is not pushing hard enough, or his fingers are positioned incorrectly, or his fingers are not close enough to the fretbar, or his left hand fingers are not curled out to avoid muting the string below the finger. So what you need to do is stand behind him and GRAB his hand and correct ALL of these things. Once you do something once, you know it is possible, and you can repeat it forever.
Members piesore Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 Could you maybe teach him a partial barre? Like either the top 3 notes or do an F power chord, then eventually connect the two? It also might help him see the relationship between power chords and major/minor chords too.
Members Marc G Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 Could you maybe teach him a partial barre? Like either the top 3 notes or do an F power chord, then eventually connect the two? I kinda learnt that way.... power chord first.... root, 5th, octive, then as my strengh grew I finished off the entire chord...... Also try and let him play around the A or G position since it's not as a big of a stretch....IMO
Members Knottyhed Posted September 21, 2007 Author Members Posted September 21, 2007 If the strings are buzzing, either he is not pushing hard enough, or his fingers are positioned incorrectly, or his fingers are not close enough to the fretbar, or his left hand fingers are not curled out to avoid muting the string below the finger. So what you need to do is stand behind him and GRAB his hand and correct ALL of these things. Once you do something once, you know it is possible, and you can repeat it forever. That's the approach I was trying, thing is - his fingers don't seem strong enough to stay curled and exert sufficient pressure... I might try the idea of starting him off on the power chord and then slowly introducing the other notes in the chord.
Mark Wein Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 With my students, one of the biggest problems that they have is a combination of thumb/index finger placement. Is his index finger on the fretting hand pointing back at his face when he is playing the chord? If so, the barring finger won't be flat enough to catch all of the strings..I try to get the student to have the point of the barring finger point more "over their shoulder", or parallel to the fret wire. Also, where is his thumb relative to the rest of the hand? I try to have them put the thumb vertically behind the first and second fingers on this middle of the neck...if I can see the thumb sticking up above the neck, it is too high to properly play a barre chord...I usually have the students place the thumb "over the top of the neck" for open chords, but barre and power chords need lower thumb placement...also, if they are "hitchhiking" or placing the thumb sideways on the back of the neck that also closes the hand up on the front of the neck and keeps the fingers from being able to go where they need to.... The strength comes from practicing..it usually takes a lesson or two for them to get the chords sounding really good, but if the hands aren't working efficiently, no matter how hard they play they aren't going to get the chords to sound....
Members Knottyhed Posted September 21, 2007 Author Members Posted September 21, 2007 I'll check his thumb next time I see him.
Members Machine Gun Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 I kinda learnt that way.... power chord first.... root, 5th, octive, then as my strengh grew I finished off the entire chord...... Also try and let him play around the A or G position since it's not as a big of a stretch....IMO Yeah, try him lower on the neck. It's easier to get all of your fingers positioned and fretted around the 7th fret.
Mark Wein Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 I'll check his thumb next time I see him. Let us know how it turns out!
Members 335clone Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 I've found it easier to start newbs off on barres around the 5th or 7th frets, let them get comfortable with the fingering and pressure before moving close to the nut.
Members Virgman Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 The trick to learning the bar chords is repetition and patience. Most people don't practice enough or keep at it. Unfortunately, motivation is hard to teach. My 11 year old son learned to play all the barre chords. I just told him to keep at it and it would happen. He did and it happened.
Members Noise... Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 When I taught myself barre chords, it really just came from practice. I already had strong hands and fingers though, so I may be an exception. I memorized all the open Major and Minor chords as well as barre and power chords in one night. By the end of the next day, I could switch between any of them smoothly without missing a beat. It comes down ENTIRELY to practice. I sat myself down and got to work on chords. I put in a few hours of focused practice, and it payed off because I was focused. With your friend, make sure all of his fingers (including thumb) are placed correctly. If even one is off, it makes the chord a lot harder. Also, what guage are the strings on the guitar he's learning on? If he's really having a tough time with chords, have him get a set of .009's. Not only can you then teach him how to properly change strings, it will also make chording earier for him because of the lighter tension.
Members piesore Posted September 21, 2007 Members Posted September 21, 2007 While it's true that simply practicing the chords is what it comes down to, just telling that to a student can be pretty unmotivating for them, in most cases I know when I'm struggling with something, I want more direction and advice than, "just keep doing it, I know kids way younger than you who learned it." I had that problem with scales and modes for the longest time, when I'd go to a teacher, they just handed me a sheet of paper and said learn them, and I wanted to and get good, but I didn't understand how apply them, and then how to make practicing them motivating and interesting. Eventually, I figured it out by reading books on my own, but I had years of frustration from that sort of vague answer. So, I'm guessing if the guy is taking lessons he wants to learn and it's really the teachers responsibility to help him feel encouraged and like he's progressing, even when he can't do a basic barre chord yet.
Members Noise... Posted September 22, 2007 Members Posted September 22, 2007 While it's true that simply practicing the chords is what it comes down to, just telling that to a student can be pretty unmotivating for them, in most cases I know when I'm struggling with something, I want more direction and advice than, "just keep doing it, I know kids way younger than you who learned it." I had that problem with scales and modes for the longest time, when I'd go to a teacher, they just handed me a sheet of paper and said learn them, and I wanted to and get good, but I didn't understand how apply them, and then how to make practicing them motivating and interesting. Eventually, I figured it out by reading books on my own, but I had years of frustration from that sort of vague answer. So, I'm guessing if the guy is taking lessons he wants to learn and it's really the teachers responsibility to help him feel encouraged and like he's progressing, even when he can't do a basic barre chord yet. I agree. Encouragement is always a good thing. The same goes for actually playing the stuff with the student. Just handing them a sheet of paper and leaving them on their own is not only a pain in the ass for the student, it's also just not helpful on the teacher's part. I take lessons for guitar, bass, and drums. One of the most important things I've found when it comes to learning new stuff is having the teacher play through the stuff with me slowly. That initial play through makes memorizing the information so much easier, as well as lets me hear it and internalize the sound so that later when I play it on my own I know if what I'm playing sounds right.
Members fouronsix Posted September 22, 2007 Members Posted September 22, 2007 When I teach the dreaded F chord, I find that most, if not all of my students try to keep their palm in contact with the neck. This generally puts the fingers out of proper alignment. Also pay attention to where their elbow is, some students have a tendency to keep their elbow against their body or on their thigh. After I show them that it's not necessary to grip the neck with the whole hand and to keep their elbow in a proper position, they have an easier time fretting it. Good luck.
Members Virgman Posted September 22, 2007 Members Posted September 22, 2007 Encouragement and proper instruction are important and should be provided. Once they are given the student has to put in the time and sweat.
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