Members wokeye Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 I have been taking lessons for about 18 months and I am starting to think I am not cut out for playing guitar. I understand it is not easy by any means and I was not expecting to be decent for a long time yet. I used to have real problems with speed but I have worked on this and it is slowly getting better. My main problems are that I am useless at improvising and my vibrato etc sucks. My tutor states that I am really not doing very well and that I sound {censored} and that he has students that have been playing the same length of time that are way more advanced and that I need to get better as he does not want to keep taking money off me. This is fine at least he is honest, but I also feel as though it puts me under a lot of pressure. I do practice a lot but I am probably not practising the right way. I just feel really under pressure when he asks me to improvise playing blues using a certain scale. I admit I am {censored} and the problem is that I really just want the guitar to be a hobby but I am really not enjoying it at the moment. I guess I could either try a different tutor, mess about with books etc, or pack in. I just do not think that I am musical and my ear for it is terrible. When I go to lessons I feel under pressure, and this makes me play even {censored}ter than I normally do. I guess there needs to be a balance with guitar tutor's as the first one I went to just wanted to talk about computers etc all the time. I do not want to pack in, but as I said I do not find it fun, I really just wanted it as a hobby and be able to play a bit of classic rock I am 38 by the way so maybe this doesn't help trying to learn such a difficult instrument.
Members blumonk Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 fire him. stop taking lessons from him. continue to teach yourself. lots of free stuff right here in the lessons loft.
Members gennation Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 Maybe you need a new teacher???
Members Virgman Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 Take your blues scale and jam over a track everyday for an hour. There's some great ones here: http://hcbts.arkay.de/ Record yourself the first day over a blues track. Come back in a month. Record yourself again over the same track as the first day. Compare. Jam everyday for an hour at least. Listen to B.B.King CDs for the same month. Everyday. You only need one. There are all the same. Don't do anything else but this for a month. If the instructor is making you feel small don't go to him. Tell him you are taking a break.
Mark Wein Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 You should try finding another teacher....maybe do trial lessons with 2-3 other teachers in the area and find one that is more positive, in tune with your needs as a guitar student and is more patient with your development....your description makes this guy sound obnoxious and abusive...not what I would be paying for and definitely not something to give the instrument up over...
Members captain average Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 i'll take your pedals n {censored}. or, just learn a couple chords and play all the songs that use those chords. that'll only take 5 lifetimes.
Members wokeye Posted December 5, 2007 Author Members Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks for the advice. I actually like my tutor as a person as I am very thick skinned as I work in a factory so I can take his comments. The guy is an awesome player but I think maybe needs to undertand that the guitar probably does not mean as much to me as it does to him, not that I am not committed, just I do not have the time to live and breath guitar like he does. I just think he should maybe do some {censored}ty coaching type courses like I do at work and learn how to deal with different types of people with different abilities. Thanks for the advice though, as I said I am not some idiot that does not practice and take the piss, I am just not a natural but surely I am not alone?
Moderators Jed Posted December 5, 2007 Moderators Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks for the advice. I actually like my tutor as a person as I am very thick skinned as I work in a factory so I can take his comments. The guy is an awesome player but I think maybe needs to undertand that the guitar probably does not mean as much to me as it does to him, not that I am not committed, just I do not have the time to live and breath guitar like he does. I just think he should maybe do some {censored}ty coaching type courses like I do at work and learn how to deal with different types of people with different abilities. Thanks for the advice though, as I said I am not some idiot that does not practice and take the piss, I am just not a natural but surely I am not alone? You shouldn't have to be addicted to or a natural talent to take guitar lessons. There are plenty of people for whom the guitar is just a hobby. Those people deserve to be treated with respect as well. You may like him as a person, but he doesn't sound like the right teacher for you right now. I'd look elsewhere . . . self-teaching is fine but requires discipline and some experience to build from, . . I'd suggest legit lessons but from someone who cares quite a bit more about his clients. goodluck!
Members blumonk Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 is your current teacher younger than you? try to find a teacher who is older than you. it might make a big difference.
Members wokeye Posted December 5, 2007 Author Members Posted December 5, 2007 is your current teacher younger than you? try to find a teacher who is older than you. it might make a big difference. No round about the same age.
Members bgator Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 I'll put the teacher issue aside. Others have already addressed that. How do you practice? Do you use a backing track, a looper, or something similar? If not, then this is really holding you back. You need to practice improvising, but you need to do so by playing in time and along with the progression rather than just noodling aimlessly on your own. If you don't practice this at home, then no wonder you can't do it for your teacher. Also, you need to learn some licks. Get some tab books or blues lesson books. Play some solos and memorize them. See what they do differently when the progression changes from the I to the IV. What scales are they using? What notes are they emphasizing? What positions on the neck are they using? Studying other people's solos and stealing licks like this has really helped me improve my improvization. I used to be like you. I'd just noodle around with a scale over a blues progression, and it wouldn't sound good at all. This is what helped me get over that impasse. Finally, I'd recommend identifying one thing to work on each time you practice improvizing. It might be transition from the I to the IV. It might be playing a turnaround. It might be adding in a new lick. Whatever it is, you shouldn't just play randomly, because it won't all just click one day. You've always got to be working on something. Okay, I shouldn't have said "finally" earlier, because I thought of one more thing. Don't play too many notes. Come up with a small phrase and use that as the basis for constructing your solo. Embellish around that phrase and change it to different chords as the progression moves. Now you've got something musical. Also along this line, use some call and response. Good luck, and don't give up.
Members Dubb Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 My tutor states that I am really not doing very well and that I sound {censored} and that he has students that have been playing the same length of time that are way more advanced and that I need to get better as he does not want to keep taking money off me.With this guy telling you stuff like this when you go in for your lessons, it's no wonder that you feel pressured and discouraged. In reality, music is not a competitive sport. You may think this guy is alright as a person, but he sounds like a {censored}ty guitar teacher. He should be encouraging and supportive of your developing guitar skills, he shouldn't place undue pressure on you to excel quicker. So basically I'm gonna have to agree with the others that you should get a new guitar teacher. It's possible to teach yourself, but for inexperienced players such as yourself, that's usually not the best option because you probably don't have enough perspective yet to know what to work on. By the way, here's a couple reality checks: 1. 18 months is not very long at all. I was still quite bad after 18 months - most people are, despite what your teacher may tell you. 2. You will probably never be completely satisfied with your improvisation. Don't get me wrong; you will improve. But it's a journey without a concrete destination. You should accept right now that no matter how good you get at playing guitar, there will always be things that you want to improve and aspire to. That's just how it is.
Members Auggie Doggie Posted December 5, 2007 Members Posted December 5, 2007 At 18 months, you should be focusing on the fundamentals in your lessons (rhythm, chords, maybe basic scale fingerings, some technique, etc), and NOT worried about being even a remotely competent improviser. Music is a language; we first learn by imitation, not by invention. That means learning other people's stuff, preferably stuff you actually like, in addition to the basic grammar/vocabulary things. The teacher's job is to help build your foundation, and give you the tools and knowledge you need to get better as a player...any teacher expecting an 18 month player to be a good improviser needs to set aside the crack pipe for a while. Further, vibrato takes YEARS to develop. Not weeks, not months, but years. Don't set unrealistic expectations; it only leads to frustration and disappointment. Personally, after 18 months of playing, I could make some neat noises and annoy everyone within earshot, and that's about all I could do. Now, I play insanely demanding stuff that most players wouldn't even attempt...clearly, I've come a LONG way since I started.Also, it does not take any natural 'gift'; music is acquired, not innate. Eveyone learns in different ways and at different rates, and I've never met anyone that couldn't learn how to play. Not everyone is going to be excellent, or even good, but anyone can be taught to play, and can develop their ear, etc. I agree with those who suggest finding another teacher, but keep in mind that it can't ALL be fun and games---it takes some old-fashioned elbow grease and persistence to improve. The more hard work you put in, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it. But, it's a lot easier to keep at it when it's at least partially fun!(Ahhhhhh.....feels good to be back)
Members jonfinn Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 I have been taking lessons for about 18 months and I am starting to think I am not cut out for playing guitar. I understand it is not easy by any means and I was not expecting to be decent for a long time yet. I used to have real problems with speed but I have worked on this and it is slowly getting better. My main problems are that I am useless at improvising and my vibrato etc sucks. My tutor states that I am really not doing very well and that I sound {censored} and that he has students that have been playing the same length of time that are way more advanced and that I need to get better as he does not want to keep taking money off me. This is fine at least he is honest, but I also feel as though it puts me under a lot of pressure. I do practice a lot but I am probably not practising the right way. I just feel really under pressure when he asks me to improvise playing blues using a certain scale. I admit I am {censored} and the problem is that I really just want the guitar to be a hobby but I am really not enjoying it at the moment. I guess I could either try a different tutor, mess about with books etc, or pack in. I just do not think that I am musical and my ear for it is terrible. When I go to lessons I feel under pressure, and this makes me play even {censored}ter than I normally do. I guess there needs to be a balance with guitar tutor's as the first one I went to just wanted to talk about computers etc all the time. I do not want to pack in, but as I said I do not find it fun, I really just wanted it as a hobby and be able to play a bit of classic rock I am 38 by the way so maybe this doesn't help trying to learn such a difficult instrument. Years ago, I taught a guy who was a little older than me. His full time job was as IRS tax auditor. After a year of me telling him he should practice more, I finally threatened to fire him unless he got his act together. He said, "Yknow, I have to be honest with you. The only time the guitar comes out of the case is in this room when I come to my lesson. I always wish I had more time. But the truth is, if I stop taking lessons, I won't play at all. I'm too busy. I'd rather come unprepared, and progress slowly because I at least get to play once a week."After that, I got off his back and we became good friends.Have you talked to your teacher about how you feel? Does he offer what you want? Lastly, it's natural to compare ourselves to others. However, most of us don't notice the things that comes naturally to us. My guess is that you know people who don't struggle with the same things as you, but you don't notice the things you pick up on naturally!It's the journey, not the destination.
Members gennation Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 As a teacher myself, I primarily teach intermediate to advanced students but don't mind taking on beginners as long as they practice and can keep moving ahead or progressing... But, if I run into a student who's not growing I'm honest with them. I don't sit and harp on them, because that will NEVER help them progress. What I do is point them in the direction of some other teach I know that deals with people who aren't putting the time into it. I actually have a list of teachers I'll suggest to other people under certain circumstances. Those teachers do the same onece they run out of ideas to keep motivating their long time students. Next time your teacher dogs on you just say "that's because you're a {censored}ty teacher" or "maybe it's not that I can't play, maybe it's that you can't teach" or "you taught me everything I know". etc...dog him back for sure. Good luck, but see if your tech can recommend someone else because it happens many times when the student and teacher don't jell.
Members DarkHorseJ27 Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 First, it does not matter that you aren't as good as another person playing for the same length of time, becuase you aren't that person. Everyone has their own pace. Second, being a good guitarist doesn't equal being a good guitar teacher. Third, do you enjoy playing guitar? That should be the most important reason you play. Anything else and (in my opinion) your playing for the wrong reasons. I have very little natural talent at guitar, and just about anything I can do on the guitar has been the result of much practice and effort. Nothing on guitar has ever come to me easy, but I still play because I love it and enjoy it. It doesn't bother that I'll never be famous for playing guitar, or that I'll ever be as good as some famous players, etc., because I figured out those aren't the reasons I play. And even though thing may not be easy for you on guitar, that doesn't mean you can't be good at it. I think I suck a guitar, but a number of people have told me that I'm pretty good, and considering most people are smarter than me, that must mean something.
Members wokeye Posted December 6, 2007 Author Members Posted December 6, 2007 Thanks for all the replies, and to try and answer them. I do like playing the guitar and can tell that I have made a lot of progress but I still know that I have miles to go. I also do practice every day, at the most I must of missed 5 days since I started. I practice around an hour every day, whether I am doing it right is a different thing. And I never expected it to be easy and I also know that you have to do things that may be repetative and a little boring at times to become better. I just personally think that there is a balance. I believe in being pushed a little, but not to much in the way that it makes me feel uncomfortable that I have to perform or else, it just makes somebody like me worse. And I agree I need to find another teacher, as if I do not my current teacher will get rid of me anyway as I am not meeting his expectations, and I know no matter how hard I practice in the next week or two I will not be able to improvise very well, as my note selection is not brilliant, neither is my vibrato and a few of my bends are quite a bit out of tune. I can play quite a lot of classic rock riffs not bad IMHO that impresses people that cannot play, I know myself that it is not brilliant but I get a buzz from it. I just want to take my playing to a higher level, and I would love to be able improvise in the future. But it is a hobby for me and I really just want lessons to develop my skills so I can learn solo's etc and sound half decent. I do not want to be EVH or Angus Young, as I do not have the time. But at the same time I take lessons seriously and would never pay money to not practice as it is a total waste of time. I have been there before when I first tried to play when I was around 13. So it could possibly be me, or it could be my tutor, I do not dislike the guy I just do not think that we gel with the guitar. It is great to see peoples replies on here as I was thinking I was totally useless not being able to improvise very well at 18 months. I am sure there are plenty of people that can, just not me
Members wokeye Posted December 6, 2007 Author Members Posted December 6, 2007 Next time your teacher dogs on you just say "that's because you're a {censored}ty teacher" or "maybe it's not that I can't play, maybe it's that you can't teach" or "you taught me everything I know". etc...dog him back for sure. Good luck, but see if your tech can recommend someone else because it happens many times when the student and teacher don't jell. Lol I do not fancy that I think he would go mad, but could be a worth a try. There are not that many tutors around here, there are however a couple more that I could try. One of the guys at work goes to one of them so I will ask him about him. It is just finding the balance really as as I previously mentioned my first tutor was a much nicer older guy, but he just wanted to talk all the time, usually nothing to do with the guitar either I just left him as he could not fit me in, and I was just going when a student was on holiday, then I got a permanent place with my current tutor.
Members Knottyhed Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 +1 to everyone that says get a new teacher. If he thinks you've not been practicing then he should call you on it, but he shouldn't put you under pressure or compare you to his other students. His other students may not have a day job, or responsibilties, may be obsessive practicers putting in anything from 3 to 8 hours a day... Personally I think it is your teacher's responsibility to tell you how to practice as well as what to practice... some people practice right without being pointed in the right direction(s), some don't. Basically, this guy is a {censored}ty teacher... there's alot of them out there.
Members Knottyhed Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 At 18 months, you should be focusing on the fundamentals in your lessons (rhythm, chords, maybe basic scale fingerings, some technique, etc), and NOT worried about being even a remotely competent improviser. Music is a language; we first learn by imitation, not by invention. That means learning other people's stuff, preferably stuff you actually like, in addition to the basic grammar/vocabulary things. The teacher's job is to help build your foundation, and give you the tools and knowledge you need to get better as a player...any teacher expecting an 18 month player to be a good improviser needs to set aside the crack pipe for a while. Further, vibrato takes YEARS to develop. Not weeks, not months, but years. Don't set unrealistic expectations; it only leads to frustration and disappointment. Personally, after 18 months of playing, I could make some neat noises and annoy everyone within earshot, and that's about all I could do. Now, I play insanely demanding stuff that most players wouldn't even attempt...clearly, I've come a LONG way since I started. Also, it does not take any natural 'gift'; music is acquired, not innate. Eveyone learns in different ways and at different rates, and I've never met anyone that couldn't learn how to play. Not everyone is going to be excellent, or even good, but anyone can be taught to play, and can develop their ear, etc. I agree with those who suggest finding another teacher, but keep in mind that it can't ALL be fun and games---it takes some old-fashioned elbow grease and persistence to improve. The more hard work you put in, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it. But, it's a lot easier to keep at it when it's at least partially fun! (Ahhhhhh.....feels good to be back) Blimey - what happened to you?
Members Auggie Doggie Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 Blimey - what happened to you?Car accident--I went into a bit of detail in another thread in this forum. Nice seeing some familiar faces still here!
Members Knottyhed Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 Car accident--I went into a bit of detail in another thread in this forum. Nice seeing some familiar faces still here! Likewise Must've been some accident - I will go seek out your thread and read all about it. You just missed Red|Dragon (aka Blumonk), he got himself banned again
Members Judge Groovyman Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 My first teacher (i was a kid) tried to teach me the fundamentals with classical songs - he was good at what he did, but that just wasn't what I needed. My dad shopped around and found a second teacher who taught me with ROCK! I actually had tons of fun after the first lesson playing along with the song he taught me (Stone Temple Pilots Wicked Garden) even if I couldn't play it all the way through. I do believe he's not the right teacher for you (just like everyone else) but I think you can continue lessons if you want, just figure out how to play along with your favorite songs on the side. That is MUCH MUCH more fun than fundamentals.
Members Santuzzo Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 I haven't read all the other posts yet, but like some others have said befire, you should get another teacher IMHO. If you out in time and practice the teacher should not make you feel this way, if he does, he is not a good teacher in my opinion. And saying things like "other students are already much better eventhoguh they started later tghan you" are just another sign that this guy is probably a bad teacher, sorry to say. But you can never compare two persons leraning process, as everyone lerans and improves at their own rate. I think a teacher's function here should be to find out, how to teach YOU the best way to help you improve, and have you still enjoy the process. If he made you feel like you feel the way you described in your first post of this thread, this teacher completely failed, IMO. I have had a teacher in the past who somehow really undermined my self confidence and made me feel like my playing was complete {censored}. And I have come to realize that having such a teacher (regardless of how great as a player they might be) can cause so much more damage to one's development on the instrument than we'd believe at first. Leave that teacher as soon as possible, and find a good teacher ! Good luck ! Lars
Members thor666 Posted December 6, 2007 Members Posted December 6, 2007 My 2 cents: There are good players and there are good teachers. From what you say, it seems that your teacher may not be able to dissect the problems you are facing. Also, different people have different expectations, and we live in a time where not everyone wants to spend that same 8 hours drilling on guitar practices. There're a few things you can do at the moment:1. Write down specific problems you have (muting, vibrato, etc)2. Find out what interests you. It is very important to have fun playing.3. Observe your own playing and imagine how you can get to a next level.4. Write down your short, medium and long term objectives, set targets for improving your specific problems and bring it to your teacher/a new teacher you find. Raymond
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