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Where do 9th and 13th chords fit in?


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  • Members
Posted

Ok, I'm not well versed in Theory, so bare with me.

 

Most things are based off the Major Scale right? And that's 7 right, do re me fa so la te.

 

and there are 12 notes A-Bb-B-C-C#-D-Eb-E-F-F#-G-G#

 

So where do you get a 13th chord?

 

I'm asking this cause I found 5th string root 9th barre chords and I love their timber. I'm a newer player and I want to start using these chords in my playing, but what do they "go" with.

  • Members
Posted

A simple answhere: you can pretty much stick a 9th or 13th anywhere a dominant seventh could go. In terms of a I-IV-V blues, you would usually see them on the IV and/or V.

 

There is a cool substitution that you can do with 13th chords, but I need to think about it for a minute before I post.

  • Moderators
Posted

Chords are typically built in thirds. So a maj7 chord is made up of the 1, 3, 5 & 7 notes of the scale. When building a maj7 chord we "skip over" the 2nd, 4th & 6th's degrees of the scale. But what if we wanted to add a bit more color to our chord work? Well, we can add some of those "skipped notes" as extensions to the chords. Basically anything beyond the 7th is considered an extension to the chord.

 

Well we could add the 2nd on top of a maj7 chord. In this case the 2nd is called a 9th (two scale degrees up from the 7th). If we wanted to add a #4th over the top of our maj7 chord, it would be called a #11th (two scale degrees up from the 9th). If we wanted to add a 6th over the top of our maj7 chord it would be called a 13th (two scale degrees up from the 11th).

 

 

1 [color=Silver]2 3 [color=silver]4 5 [color=silver]6 7 [color=silver]8 9 [color=silver]10 11 [color=silver]12 13 [color=silver]14 15

C [color=silver]D E [color=silver]F G [color=silver]A B [color=silver]C D [color=silver]E F [color=silver]G A [color=silver]B C

 

Not every chord type can have every type of extension. Which chord types can use which extensions is typically determined by the chord's function (you'll have to look at chord functions versus chord scales to understand why). One guideline is that allowable extensions are normally diatonic to the chord scale and are typically a whole-step above any chord tone. Notes that are diatonic to the scale that are a half-step above a chord tone are typically not considered to be "available extensions"

 

For functional harmony - the following are general guidelines:

 

Imaj7 chords can have 9ths and 13ths, but not 11ths (which would interfere with the major 3rd)

IImin7 chords can have 9th's, 11ths & 13ths

IIImin7 chords can have 11ths, but not 9ths or 13ths (diatonic to this chord scale is the b9th and the b13th)

IVmaj7 chords can have 9ths, #11ths & 13ths

V7 chords can have 9ths, and 13ths but not 11ths (which would interfere with the major 3rd) **

VImin7 chords can have 9ths and 11ths, but not 13ths (diatonic to this chord scale is the b13th)

VIImin7b5 chords can have 11ths & b13ths, but not 9ths (diatonic to this chord scale is the b9th)

 

** Dom7 chords follow the above guidelines for functional harmony in major keys, but can be used with lot's of altered extensions dependent on the setting. When and how to use these extensions is beyond the scope of a message board response. But possible extensions of various Dom7 chords are b9, 9, #9, #11, b5, b13, 13.

 

cheers,

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