Members rmendoza79 Posted April 5, 2008 Members Posted April 5, 2008 Hi guys, I am very ignorant with regards to music theory. But I am trying to learn slowly. I will depict what I feel about improvizing in guitar, by using as example my learning of electronics. When I was learning electronics at university, teachers put a lot of theory in mi mind, but never gave me an introductory big picture of electronics. At the end of my many years of studies I relate everything and finally I figure out how to use all that crap combined into my professional life. Nevertheless, I would have loved to heard a big and easy to understand picture of electronics at the beginning of my years of study. That would have made things much easier. Now I am reading a lot about scales (pentatonics and their variations). Nevertheless, I do not know very well what to do with them. I know they produce different kinds of sounds (sad, happy, bluesy, etc.). I also know that they sound cool with some "keys", which is a feature of any song (jajajaj). If I find the key I can move with scales around the song to build up some solo. Is that right? Ok, the point is: What if I want to jam some song I have never heard? How to identify the key of that song? Can I identify a key just by looking at the notes being played by my jamming dude? Is there any trick to identify a key? Sometimes I put my finger covering a set of notes belonging to a single scale and slide down through the fingerboard until the notes song harmonious to the song. I don't know if that is right, but sometimes I end up playing something that does not sound bad. Do I find the key of the song when I do that sliding? Thanks for patience and please orient me.
Members Jasco Posted April 6, 2008 Members Posted April 6, 2008 Sounds like you're on the right track. I'd suggest getting a book on theory and reading it. "Jazzology", published by Hal Leonard is a good one. Or several of the posters here have good websites that can help you.
Members Virgman Posted April 6, 2008 Members Posted April 6, 2008 Sometimes I put my finger covering a set of notes belonging to a single scale and slide down through the fingerboard until the notes song harmonious to the song. I don't know if that is right, but sometimes I end up playing something that does not sound bad. Do I find the key of the song when I do that sliding?Thanks for patience and please orient me. Yes. You are finding a scale that works over the chords. You are getting closer. Some scales can "work" with more than one key. Experience will guide you. Moving your scale patterns around is one way to find a scale that works.
Members rmendoza79 Posted April 9, 2008 Author Members Posted April 9, 2008 Thanks for the answer guys. I will give a try to jazzology. I hope I can understand it, though. Do you know where I can get the TOC? Regards...
Members jeremy_green Posted April 9, 2008 Members Posted April 9, 2008 Hey rmendoza79, Here is a post I just put up here to help another guy to figure out the same thing. The chords being played hold the key to what key it is in. This bit of information started me on the way to understanding how it all works. There is far more to learn but this helped me ... maybe it will you too: You can start with memorizing the basic major scale formula W, W, H, W, W, W, H W= whole step (2 frets) H= half step (1 fret) Memorize this then pick any note and go up and down the string and chart where all these notes land(on all strings). You will then have charted the full major scale for the key of whichever note you started on. You can then break that down into the modes by picking a position and finding the notes the land vertically above and below that point. Generally 3 notes per string make them up. You can also use the above scale formula and find all the chords in any key. W, W, H, W, W, W, H i.e. key of C is C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C etc. The chords fall as such Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor, Diminished So the chords in the key od C are: C Major, D minor, E, minor, F Major, G Major, A minor, B Dimished Use the same formulas for any note starting point. If you learn the key of G then analyze the chords in the song you will see some familiar stuff. Many songs were written in G that you already know. This is a small particle of information but there are tons of hours into really learning what this is. You need to spend the time digging to get the gold. So memorize: basic major scale formula W, W, H, W, W, W, H The order of chords: Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor, Diminished
Moderators Jed Posted April 9, 2008 Moderators Posted April 9, 2008 When I was learning electronics at university, teachers put a lot of theory in mi mind, but never gave me an introductory big picture of electronics. At the end of my many years of studies I relate everything and finally I figure out how to use all that crap combined into my professional life. Nevertheless, I would have loved to heard a big and easy to understand picture of electronics at the beginning of my years of study. That would have made things much easier. So now that you are done with university do you feel you know, on an intuitive level, all the electronics theory and have internalized it all such that you now work in that field at a level of expertise / virtuosity or do you function at a craftsman / engineer level? Would it have been possible for you to understand the complex interactions and relationships involved in electronics without first learning all the "theory crap" as you describe it? Complex ideas can not be described accurately in simple terms without making huge and gross generalizations (aka inaccuracies). Neither electronics nor music are casual things to study. Both require a significant investment in time and effort to get to a point where things make sense. Of the two, I believe that music is the more challenging area of study. If you insist on "seeing the big picture" before you learn all the little bits and pieces along the way, you'll will neither learn anything substantial nor will you ever "see the big picture". Music cannot be described in any language other than aural which is to say actual aural examples. As a society we lack the language and methods of description to accurately describe music in any way other than in an aural sense. So how can anyone give you an accurate sense of "the big picture" if you don't have the language and musical skills to understand what their words, examples and ideas mean and imply? We don't sell "silver bullets" here and the people that claim to sell "silver bullets" elsewhere are lying about the effectiveness of their wares. cheers,
Members rmendoza79 Posted April 9, 2008 Author Members Posted April 9, 2008 Hi jeremy_green, that is great information, I have already printed out the help and placed into my wall-board. Now I will deepen into theory with much more confidence. Hi Jed. Thanks for your answer. I agree with you that you need to know some theory before receiving a general picture of any field. E.g., jeremy_green mentioned modes, scales, major, minor, frets and so on. Nevertheless, I do believe that the information he gave me is also going to help me at placing the coming theory into "more organized" blocks in mi mind. It is my responsibility now to expand that info or even modify my understanding of it as my knowledge grows (I should be able to move such blocks as the big picture gets more and more defined). I am sorry for the term crap. In fact I like theory very much. I just wanted to relax the post . Remember: I did not come here asking: please teach me how to improvise; I was rather asking for some orientation. Thanks for the info guys.
Members gennation Posted April 9, 2008 Members Posted April 9, 2008 Haha, when in electronic school I came up with my own theorem for Impedance when resistors, caps, and coils were involved. The instructor thought I was crazy. I explained it to the class and got about 5-7 others to buying into it. Again, the instructor thought I was crazy until about 8 of us started using my formulas and concepts to ace the tests They ended up making it a sign at the entrance of the school for awhile that said: Dodge's Theorem (and then the formula) You never want to know the outcome...then you'll have a "vision" in your head that could stifle YOUR creativity. I equate it to 10 people taking the same electronics or music class and each of them creating their own devices or music based upon the basic principles they learned. If they had the outcome in their head, everything that was taught would be referenced to the outcome. This could very easily create a narrow vision of what the outcome COULD be.
Members sumpm1 Posted April 10, 2008 Members Posted April 10, 2008 Very true that you don't want to be too specific about the outcome of a learning experience in order to not limit creativity. And for any noobs to this thread, jesus
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