Members MadPsyance Posted April 5, 2008 Members Posted April 5, 2008 I'm in a bit of a dilemma here. I've been using this method, and I'm about a week into it.: http://www.tomhess.net/Articles/HowToPracticeForMaximumSpeedPart1.aspx called How To Practice for Maximum Speed - Part 1 by Tom Hess. Basically you spend weeks playing the same technique really slow and build your way up. My dilemma is, I think I'm starting to unlearn some of the older techniques I had because I'm only focusing on this 1 new technique. So another idea occurred to me: What if I practice many different techniques at this slow speed, and slowly increase speed like the program says? Then I'd be improving several areas at once, right? But what if the program only works if you dedicate ALL your practice time on the 1 technique? It does actually say to do this for each "practice session"...but doesn't specify how long a practice session could be, of if other techniques are allowed during the same practice session. So, everyone is saying START SLOW! But how do you guys do it?
Members 1001gear Posted April 5, 2008 Members Posted April 5, 2008 Well for one thing there's a ton to learn ABOUT slow so if you're the studious type or just care about professionalism there can be every bit the challenge of playing slow and musically as there is trying to go fast. Failing the musical concerns, the student who just wants to go fast really has no choice but to slow down and and train correctly.
Members RedYagiDY Posted April 6, 2008 Members Posted April 6, 2008 Basicly in that program you can practice everything you want so long as you use a metronome and START SLOW. Just play any old thing you want but play it at 40bpm then don't up the speed untill you can play it at 40bpm for 5mins at a strech w/o missing a beat.
Members Jasco Posted April 6, 2008 Members Posted April 6, 2008 I'd suggest practicing for maximum musicallity instead of maximum speed.
Members dacama Posted April 6, 2008 Members Posted April 6, 2008 I'd suggest practicing for maximum musicallity instead of maximum speed. And if his musical piece requires a very fast fill or speedy playing then what? Hope the tooth fairy brings speed? Don't make the argument of speed vs emotion, it's just retarded.
Members Jasco Posted April 6, 2008 Members Posted April 6, 2008 And if his musical piece requires a very fast fill or speedy playing then what? Hope the tooth fairy brings speed? Don't make the argument of speed vs emotion, it's just retarded. Tone, groove, and melody will kill speed 10 times out of 10. However, I wasn't making the argument of speed vs. emotion. You've obviously misunderstood me. What I was saying is that when practicing, one shouldn't focus on speed as a goal. But rather, focus on good timing, tone, accuracy, melody and so forth. Speed will still be aquired. But it will be musical, instead of the usual non-musical shred/wank-fest I hear so often by those obsessed with speed.
Members MadPsyance Posted April 7, 2008 Author Members Posted April 7, 2008 Well my goal here is accuracy not speed, and the exercise to the link I posted will work on that I'm assuming. I don't care about blistering solo's, just being able to down pick 16th notes faster than 100 bpm. I'm really trying to alternate palm muted and non-palm muted every 16th note at faster than 100 bpm. Right now the fastest I can do it is at 80 bpm. Before I started to do this particular program I was getting really good with my tremolo style alternate picking, but since I've been focusing so much on this new one, my tremolo has gone down...hence the original post.
Members RenegadeMinds Posted April 7, 2008 Members Posted April 7, 2008 What I was saying is that when practicing, one shouldn't focus on speed as a goal. But rather, focus on good timing, tone, accuracy, melody and so forth. Speed will still be aquired. But it will be musical, instead of the usual non-musical shred/wank-fest I hear so often by those obsessed with speed. Agreed there. I think that with speed, you really need to focus a lot on accuracy and build both together. As you build those, you also need time to become comfortable at that level and focus as stated above. Without those, sure you can be fast, but there's something missing still. Without being comfortable at shred speeds, you're not really doing much good for yourself other than shredding. When you're comfortable, you can take your time (so to speak) and make something more of what you're playing. I think this is the difference between some guy that just shreds at a million miles per second versus Yngwie's blazing that goes beyond simple shreding -- he's got a true "feel" for the music at that speed -- something that is most certainly not easy, but truly shows his virtuosity.
Members stratitude Posted April 7, 2008 Members Posted April 7, 2008 The whole shred/wank debate is always fun and fascinating, but sometimes you need speed, not just for shred, and as such it is a valuable asset to all guitarists. I think the method you provided will help you to improve speed - start slowly and focus on accuracy! When you have it right on the nose, then speed up the metronome a little, and keep at it. Pay extreme attention as you play, focus on accuracy, and make sure that you stay relaxed as you are speeding up. I would recommend not increasing the tempo until you can play at that tempo both accurately and without any excess muscle tension. This is a good way to practice all your guitar skills and not just things that need to eventually played at a super-fast tempo. If you put in the attention and focus on relaxation, as opposed to mindless repetition, you'll be burning up the fretboard in no time*.*Actually may take months, or even years. Your mileage may vary.
Members Jasco Posted April 7, 2008 Members Posted April 7, 2008 Pay extreme attention as you play, focus on accuracy, and make sure that you stay relaxed as you are speeding up. I would recommend not increasing the tempo until you can play at that tempo both accurately and without any excess muscle tension. BINGO!
Members Knottyhed Posted April 7, 2008 Members Posted April 7, 2008 I'm in a bit of a dilemma here.I've been using this method, and I'm about a week into it.:http://www.tomhess.net/Articles/HowToPracticeForMaximumSpeedPart1.aspxcalled How To Practice for Maximum Speed - Part 1 by Tom Hess.Basically you spend weeks playing the same technique really slow and build your way up.My dilemma is, I think I'm starting to unlearn some of the older techniques I had because I'm only focusing on this 1 new technique.So another idea occurred to me: What if I practice many different techniques at this slow speed, and slowly increase speed like the program says? Then I'd be improving several areas at once, right? But what if the program only works if you dedicate ALL your practice time on the 1 technique? It does actually say to do this for each "practice session"...but doesn't specify how long a practice session could be, of if other techniques are allowed during the same practice session.So, everyone is saying START SLOW! But how do you guys do it? Look at it this way; play something as fast as you can. I bet you miss loads of notes, I bet your sense of rythm goes to pieces, I bet in short - you sound crap. Now imagine that you practice like that, naturally if you practice like that you'll never develop any accuracy and you'll never develop a good sense of timing/rythm. What you play will sound bad and not make sense. If you practice slowly you can focus on accuracy, timing, dynamics etc.. You practice it enough you'll be able to do it without thinking, if you can do it without thinking you'll be able to play it fast. If you want to play ludicrously fast, then at this point it might be worth pushing yourself in tiny increments using the metronome... I think to a very large extent, being able to play fast is just something that happens to you if you focus on the music and put the hours in.
Members Yngtchie Blacksteen Posted April 7, 2008 Members Posted April 7, 2008 There's always another way... [YOUTUBE]DhkbSBxPYcU[/YOUTUBE]
Members Virgman Posted April 7, 2008 Members Posted April 7, 2008 Great clip Yngwie. At the root of this whole topic is that perhaps some people are just born fast, i.e. some people can run faster or jump higher than others. Kind of what Lane says. Batio has stated a similar thing that he was always fast.
Members MadPsyance Posted April 7, 2008 Author Members Posted April 7, 2008 I'd like to restate that shredding is not my goal here. Just simple down picking faster than I can now (16th notes at 80 bpm)alternating palm-mute and non- palm mute faster than 80, is what I'm trying to accomplish.
Members Virgman Posted April 7, 2008 Members Posted April 7, 2008 I'd like to restate that shredding is not my goal here. Just simple down picking faster than I can now (16th notes at 80 bpm)alternating palm-mute and non- palm mute faster than 80, is what I'm trying to accomplish. This question has been asked many times before. The answer appears to be keep practicing until you get it. It might take you several months to several years.
Members Knottyhed Posted April 8, 2008 Members Posted April 8, 2008 Great clip Yngwie.At the root of this whole topic is that perhaps some people are just born fast, i.e. some people can run faster or jump higher than others.Kind of what Lane says. Batio has stated a similar thing that he was always fast. Yeh - I think there's something in that, some people just have an unusual amount of talent - be that for playing fast, technical things or for making great music (or both if you're really lucky). That's no reason to give up on things that don't come easily tough, you just have to work hard at those areas. Steve Vai for example has repeatedly stated that he had to work really hard to get his chops up to snuff and he felt that he was surrounded at Berkley by people with far more chops than he had (no doubt true), he never had a problem being creative though. To be honest he still can't play as fast as some other guitarists... but most people would say he is fast enough.
Members jonfinn Posted April 8, 2008 Members Posted April 8, 2008 There's a lot of truth in this video! He's right. His ways don't work for everyone, but they clearly worked for him. I like that he explains that. I've had this conversation with lots of students. What I tell them is to stop trying to get faster. Instead, I tell them to choose a single piece of music and work on getting that single piece, rather than everything, faster. Practicing this way means less time spent playing exercises, and more time practicing music! Knowledge and ability are transferrable. If you're a great basketball player, it will take you less time to become a great baseball player than someone trying to learn both sports from scratch.
Members jeremy_green Posted April 8, 2008 Members Posted April 8, 2008 I agree with a lot of what that guy on the video says about breaking the mental block and jumping up the tempo from time to time. I also agree with his talk of "kernals" of notes or syncopations. My speed increased the most across the board when I used a metronome and went through the breakdowns (first eigths, then triplets, then 16ths, then groups of 5, then 6, then 7s) by adding all those breakdowns in there it did something ... not sure what really but all of a sudden I was breaking through walls. a DVD that helped me immensely was frank Gambales chopbuilders. It takes a while to learn the program front to back but when you do damn it increased my speed. The nice thing too is all his "patterns" are based on musical ideas. So after doing it my hands just instinctively went to some nice areas. Jasco - 1+ on your comment about being musical. BTW - what is with shredders and full scale delay settings that are as loud as the note. That guy on the video doesnt need it at all. Yngwie, Gilbert all those true speed heads dont need to do that. It sounds like dung
Members Virgman Posted April 8, 2008 Members Posted April 8, 2008 Here's some Lane licks for those all set to become Lane-ites. My instructions are quite simple. Practice the material until you are as fast as Shawn Lane. http://www.petrucciforum.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-37720.html
Members Ian Hand Posted April 10, 2008 Members Posted April 10, 2008 I agree with a lot of what that guy on the video says about breaking the mental block and jumping up the tempo from time to time. The Tom Hess article "How to practice for maximum speed part 2" deals with just this method: http://www.tomhess.net/Articles/HowToPracticeForMaximumSpeedPart2.aspx I've used both methods and found them extremely useful for all techniques -my playing has improved at all speeds.
Members Li Shenron Posted April 10, 2008 Members Posted April 10, 2008 My dilemma is, I think I'm starting to unlearn some of the older techniques I had because I'm only focusing on this 1 new technique. No wonder... because that method is bull{censored}. It almost puts you into a position where you have to give up everything (including fun) to follow the rules and assume you've got 25 hours per day. I think it's the attitude which is wrong. Because I've seen many people trying such torture-yourself methods and all but a few fail.
Members Eddie Posted April 10, 2008 Members Posted April 10, 2008 What I do is focus on specific areas, such as right hand, left hand, picking motion, finger position, any tension I feel, etc. I focus on all of these while practicing slowly, minimizing any unnecessary movement. Once I am aware of my movements and my choice of left-hand fingers or right-hand picking motion, I gradually increase speed with a metronome. Once I reach my top speed, I increase the tempo by 10 BPM, play for a minute or two, and decrease the tempo by 6 or 8 BPM. That way my top speed increases by 2-4 BPM, and I can play fast and clean.Think lazy. Move as little as possible. Some very useful tools:Speed mechanics for lead guitar, by Troy StetinaAccelerate your guitar playing, by Tomo FujitaThe Principles of Correct Practice for Guitar, by Jamie AndreasEssential Bass Technique, by Peter Murray. Although this is focused on bass, it is the book that made me aware of proper technique and its importance. Things that felt odd at first made sense later on and my playing improved by applying proper technique. I try to apply these concepts with the guitar.
Members jeremy_green Posted April 10, 2008 Members Posted April 10, 2008 The single biggest thing that jumped my speed noticably was when I started playing any riff or scale with different note breakdowns to a metronome. I got onto this first through Frank Gambales Chopbuilders DVD guitar workout and have ever since used it as part of my warmup routine. It synced my hands tightly together so my rythmic phrasing improved dramatically. Take a scale or riff, first play it as eighth notes to the click, then triplets, then 16ths and so on. You may have to add a note at the start or finish to make it numerically line up. Do this lots and keep pushing it faster. Then mix it up - one bar triplets, one bar 16ths back and forth. It is an awesome technique and did wonders for my speed and general cleanliness.
Members Jasco Posted April 10, 2008 Members Posted April 10, 2008 Yes Jeremy, that is a good exercise for building bursts of speed as well as control of rhythmic subdivisions.
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