Alternative Picking vs. Economy Picking

[ChEifR0bz]

Which is better for shredding? I know Paul Gilbert and Yngwie Malmsteen use Alternative picking technique (such as up, down, up, down), but I am an economy picker (where the picking depends on switching strings).

 

Is it a bad thing for shredding? Should I practice Alternative?

[1001gear]

Master both. Try not to hurt yourself.

[pirata]

before I got a teacher I used eco picking but all the exercises he gives me is Alt. picking and there all shred exercises.

 

But as 1001gear said master both but alt. picking is usually better.

[Kuroyume]

Well. Then there is also sparse picking (blues and jazz - maybe that's what you mean by 'economy picking') where you are picking less and using slides/hammer-ons/pull-offs more often.

 

Yngwie also uses sweep picking a lot as well - which is sort of alternate picking but not really. He has also moved away from the constant alternate picking for his blues covers and such.

 

So, as 1001gear said, I'll second that you should master as many picking techniques as possible - and there are MANY techniques (alternative picking, metal-type downstroke picking, sweep picking, claw-hammer, fingerpicking, two-handed tapping, and so on and so on). Concentrate on one at a time - otherwise you'll overload yourself.

[TheGareth]

My advice would be to not think about it and just play whatever way feels natural. Take Steve Morse for example, he alternate picks apreggios and it sounds incredible. Brett Garsed uses hybrid picking to great effect too when changing strings and playing arpeggios.

[chisa]

Well. Then there is also sparse picking (blues and jazz - maybe that's what you mean by 'economy picking') where you are picking less and using slides/hammer-ons/pull-offs more often. Yngwie also uses sweep picking a lot as well - which is sort of alternate picking but not really. He has also moved away from the constant alternate picking for his blues covers and such. So, as 1001gear said, I'll second that you should master as many picking techniques as possible - and there are MANY techniques (alternative picking, metal-type downstroke picking, sweep picking, claw-hammer, fingerpicking, two-handed tapping, and so on and so on). Concentrate on one at a time - otherwise you'll overload yourself.

economy picking is actually moving the pick as little as possible and coordination you up/downstrokes to achieve this. i have never bothered with it. alternate picking is easy enough and produces what i need.

[freetime]

Which is better for shredding?

[Kuroyume]

economy picking is actually moving the pick as little as possible and coordination you up/downstrokes to achieve this. i have never bothered with it. alternate picking is easy enough and produces what i need.

 

Ah. I was afraid of that. Might be useful for chord strummers (where I heard the most about that) but, as you, I have never bothered with this principle for lead/solo/riff playing (and not much for chord progressions either).

 

My feeling is this idea is more confusing that practical. You have to keep moving your arm/wrist and make the proper contacts in the process. If you are following the rhythm physically otherwise and in your head, then the actual application of the rhythm/beat should be a timing matter not an execution matter. Imagine trying to hit almost seeminly randomly timed notes on a complex beat like 9/4 timing using this method - you'd die before even mastering it (playing a single note even).

 

Alternate picking is the winner (imho) as it is 'economic' compared to 'economy' picking - which is actually very wasteful energetically. Think about it - you have to 'pick' every beat even if there is nothing being played. How economic is that? Not very.

[mosiddiqi]

Well, my understanding of economy picking could be shown in the following example:

 

|-------5--------|

|-5-7-8---8-7---

[Jed]

 

Well, my understanding of economy picking could be shown in the following example: .

 

 

Agreed, this is the definition I use. I find that I practice alternate picking more, but in a pinch - economy picking often sounds smoother. Obviously I should practice more until I get to the point where strict alternate picking sounds as smooth as economy picking.

 

cheers,

[1001gear]

Or another way, economy picking uses sweeps for all string to string movement. Obviously multiple notes on a single string are alternate picked as required.

[Knottyhed]

 

Which is better for shredding? I know Paul Gilbert and Yngwie Malmsteen use Alternative picking technique (such as up, down, up, down), but I am an economy picker (where the picking depends on switching strings). Is it a bad thing for shredding? Should I practice Alternative?

 

 

Plenty of shredders do either, some can do both... basically it doesn't matter.

[ChEifR0bz]

 

before I got a teacher I used eco picking but all the exercises he gives me is Alt. picking and there all shred exercises. But as 1001gear said master both but alt. picking is usually better.

 

 

I'd think I rather master one than both. Only thing for sweep picking for arpeggios, but I think I might want to go to alternative picking.

[Kikaruu]

like 1001gear said, master both. They're both good for shredding, maybe economy more so, but it really depends on the piece you're playing. Plus, if you master both, you can blend them (wait... what?). It'll all come together in the end, y'know? But, if you want to master one first, I suggest alt. picking. It gets fun.

 

@kuroyume: Your name means black dream, right?

[Bysler]

Theoretically, playing a lick with string skipping (i.e: 3 note per string) using economy picking, is more efficient and take less time than using strict alternate picking. However, the difference is almost unnoticeable in a practical situation. I think you should learn both and use it at situation where you are more comfortable with.

[Li Shenron]

I prefer alternate because:

 

- it gives you much more rhythmic control for marking accents

- it becomes automatic, while economy requires you to plan all movements for every song

- has a lesser chance to tense your muscles up, because it's easier to play all notes equally

- once you're fast, the speed difference with economy is minimal

- you still need to alternate when playing notes on the same string, you can't live without it

 

I actually still use economy picking when playing slowly, and alternate when playing fast...

[flying_v]

to add to the discussion, here is an article: http://www.mikephilippov.com/load_article.php?articleName=avd

[Knottyhed]

 

to add to the discussion, here is an article: http://www.mikephilippov.com/load_article.php?articleName=avd

 

 

However it takes a LONGER time to master alternate picking (than it does directional picking) due to excess movement that the technique requires. Moreover, it is not as ergonomically efficient thus increasing the risk of possible injury. However it is entirely possible to become equally fast using both techniques.

Interesting article, but I don't get his arguments (probably because they make no sense): It ergonomically less efficient, but just as fast?! Since when did excess movement cause injury? I thought it was very small repetitive movement that caused injury... but then again I never heard of anyone ever injuring themselves through alternate picking or economy picking anyway! Lastly, why is it faster to learn? I think it is only faster to learn if economy picking is what feels intuitive... to some people alternate picking is more intuitive...

[Leo Plumtree]

 

I prefer alternate because: - it becomes automatic, while economy requires you to plan all movements for every song

 

 

Economy picking requires no planning. All you do is move to a higher string with a downstroke and to a lower string with an upstroke, regardless of the direction of the preceding stroke. It's just as simple and fundamental a concept as alternate picking.

[gtrnut]

 

Economy picking requires no planning. All you do is move to a higher string with a downstroke and to a lower string with an upstroke, regardless of the direction of the preceding stroke. It's just as simple and fundamental a concept as alternate picking.

 

 

+1 I use it all the time

[rodmo]

 

My advice would be to not think about it and just play whatever way feels natural. Take Steve Morse for example, he alternate picks apreggios and it sounds incredible. Brett Garsed uses hybrid picking to great effect too when changing strings and playing arpeggios.

 

 

Generally I agree.

 

Alternate may provide a little more control.

 

But there are always exceptions to the rule. Jeff Healey did it his way.

[Li Shenron]

 

Economy picking requires no planning. All you do is move to a higher string with a downstroke and to a lower string with an upstroke, regardless of the direction of the preceding stroke. It's just as simple and fundamental a concept as alternate picking.

 

 

Ok, but I think it takes a longer time to make it come natural to the average player. Before it's natural, you will have to think about the next pick.

[guitartheman101]

To add to the discussion, here is an article: as someone said, economy picking and alternate picking are more alike than they are different. The economy picking simply gets your hand to move in the most efficient way possible and this requires alternate picking sometimes and sweep picking other times.

[musicfan]

Can someone explain this:

 

Economy picking is always described as picking with an upstroke or a downstroke when crossing strings, and which one is used, is determined by the next string - is it adjacent or not. For example, you pick three notes on the B string - E on the 5th fret, with and downstroke, F# and G#, and, say, A on the E string - a simple pattern in E major. If you economy pick, you pick the A with a downstroke, but if you wanna return to G#, you have to use an upstroke. Doesn't it break the basic rule of eco. picking? Does it mean it's strictly used for 3 note per string runs and nothing else? I see people like Gambale using it for all sorts of stuff, but this is confusing...

[mosiddiqi]

 

Can someone explain this: Economy picking is always described as picking with an upstroke or a downstroke when crossing strings, and which one is used, is determined by the next string - is it adjacent or not. For example, you pick three notes on the B string - E on the 5th fret, with and downstroke, F# and G#, and, say, A on the E string - a simple pattern in E major. If you economy pick, you pick the A with a downstroke, but if you wanna return to G#, you have to use an upstroke. Doesn't it break the basic rule of eco. picking? Does it mean it's strictly used for 3 note per string runs and nothing else? I see people like Gambale using it for all sorts of stuff, but this is confusing...

 

 

Economy picking is about using the least amount of motion. In your example above, once you pick that A with a downstroke, an upstroke is the most efficient way to play the G# as you can move the pick directly to the string. A downstroke in this case would mean you going OVER the string before you could execute the downstroke, hence wasted motion.