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Anybody had this before???


Jeff1979

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Posted

Ive been playing 17 years now and over the last few weeks, my fretting hand has started to feel tired all the time and i can mostly feel it in my knuckles.

Ive started working on 3nps speed picking recently, a couple of hours a day, is this a common problem to encounter ? will this ache go as im using my muscles in a slightly different way ?

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Posted

Give it a rest until it feels better. You've suddenly upped the stress on your hand and it isn't ready for it... it's like going to the gym, if you keep overloading the same muscles every day you won't get stronger, you'll just get weaker and end up with an injury.

 

I've had problems before because I wasn't listening to my body, push it and you'll end up with tendonitus or carpal tunnel and it'll probably plague you on and off for the rest of your life.

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Posted

Depends, there are two kind of pain. Pain that leads to injury. Pain that doesn't lead to injury. First one needs rest. Second one should be worked through.

 

Only you can tell for sure which it is ultimately -- but if it's not getting any worse then it's probably no emergency. When in doubt ask a doctor, don't just rest -- although rest is a pretty good general cure for a lot of short-term hand problems though.

 

I remember reading that Slash solved his hand pain problem with potassium by simply adding one banana per day to his diet. Might be worth checking into also... :thu:

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Posted

Please don't tell me we're going to have another argument! :p

 

I know what you mean, but , there's no such thing as pain you should ignore... there's fatique, which can safely be worked through (although whether you should is open to debate).

 

Pain, as in joint/tendon pain, or stabbing sensations, or numbness should never be worked through. As someone who spent a year or two wrestling with intermittent carpal tunnel symptoms (and I'm still worried it'll come back), I feel pretty strongly about that one! Once pain starts it doesn't generally go away until you rest and let it heal. I lost alot more playing time than i gained through being stupid and 'working through it'.

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Posted

Please don't tell me we're going to have another argument!
:p

I know what you mean,
but
, there's no such thing as pain you should ignore... there's fatique, which can safely be worked through (although whether you should is open to debate).


Pain, as in joint/tendon pain, or stabbing sensations, or numbness should
never
be worked through. As someone who spent a year or two wrestling with intermittent carpal tunnel symptoms (and I'm still worried it'll come back), I feel pretty strongly about that one! Once pain starts it doesn't generally go away until you rest and let it heal. I lost alot more playing time than i gained through being stupid and 'working through it'.

 

amen, same here.

be VERY careful with pain, its your body telling you something.

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Posted

amen, same here.

be VERY careful with pain, its your body telling you something.

 

Naw, there's pain involved with every guitarists healthy evolution -- and with getting good at practically anything. There's pain that causes injury (avoid) and there's pain that leads to growth (work through). Period.

 

If we all sat down everytime we had a pain nothing would ever get done. :)

 

And... Be wary of blanket advice from guitarists who haven't even seen it -- when in doubt ask a doctor. Only you and your doctor can say anything about this for sure. But rest simply isn't the solution for everything.

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Posted

This one's pretty simple.

 

Subject plays 3nps fingerings for several hours. Subject feels discomfort in fingers.

 

Hmmm...

 

I prescribe rest and resumption in activity at a lower intensity after pain disappears.

 

Try doing these exercises every other day instead of every day. A day of rest in between.

 

House-Group1.jpg

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Posted

Naw, there's pain involved with every guitarists healthy evolution -- and with getting good at practically anything. There's pain that causes injury (avoid) and there's pain that leads to growth (work through). Period.


If we all sat down everytime we had a pain nothing would ever get done.
:)

And... Be wary of blanket advice from guitarists who haven't even seen it -- when in doubt ask a doctor. Only you and your doctor can say anything about this for sure. But rest simply isn't the solution for everything.

 

Blimey, do you actually think through anything you post on this forum? I would say being as you are a guitarist that hasn't seen this guys injury, suggesting to him that maybe he should work through it is nothing short irresponsible. Telling him he should rest is admittedly cautious, but ultimately sound advice.

 

I'll tell you something else; you go to any doctor complaining of cronic pain that is related to playing an instrument he will tell you not to play it for a while. Common sense advice from someone that is more worried about your health than whether you're sticking to Mr Vai's 10 hour guitar workout.

 

Honestly - since when was cronic pain a part of playing a musical instrument? If you hands are hurting and you are not playing your instrument you've caused damage to your hands. If you keep playing you will cause more damage. If you don't ever let that damage heal your injury will become permanent. Period.

 

There's discomfort and there's fatique, both symptoms dissappear as soon as you put the instrument down indicating that no harm has been done. If your hand is hurting before you even pick your instrument up you have a problem.

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Posted

Thanks guys, i have been resting/cutting back on the harder type of playing, common sense kicked in with that one, i also think part of the problem is using a mouse and keyboard all day everyday at work, my fingers just feel tired all the time. I cant see a way round that one really

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Posted

Blimey, do you actually think through anything you post on this forum? I would say being as you are a guitarist that hasn't seen this guys injury, suggesting to him that maybe he should work through it is nothing short irresponsible. Telling him he should rest is admittedly cautious, but ultimately sound advice.


I'll tell you something else; you go to any doctor complaining of cronic pain that is related to playing an instrument he will tell you not to play it for a while. Common sense advice from someone that is more worried about your health than whether you're sticking to Mr Vai's 10 hour guitar workout.


Honestly - since when was cronic pain a part of playing a musical instrument? If you hands are hurting and you are not playing your instrument you've caused damage to your hands. If you keep playing you will cause more damage. If you don't ever let that damage heal your injury will become permanent. Period.


There's discomfort and there's fatique, both symptoms dissappear as soon as you put the instrument down indicating that no harm has been done. If your hand is hurting before you even pick your instrument up you have a problem.

 

There is nothing irresponsible about working through stuff. We've all done it, as has every competent guitarist on earth in music history. Period.

 

The notion that all discomfort is automatically a prescription for rest is a joke -- you really do not know what you are speaking of. At all. Go ask any doctor, they'll tell you the exact same thing.

 

Everyone guitarist in history starting 3nps felt the stretch. Big hairy ass deal. Unless a doctor says it's a problem it's probably not -- and no, you are not a doctor, although you may play one online. :)

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Posted

No joke; if you go to a doctor with an RSI he is unlikely to tell you to carry on playing your guitar for 8 hours a day. If he does he should be struck off.

I have already said there is a difference between momentary discomfort and cronic pain that does not go away.

 

How the hell do you know I'm not a doctor? Well, you're right for once, I'm not, but I know what a doctor will tell you if you ask them - because I have been to a doctor with hand and wrist problems; as mentioned above. If you bothered reading peoples posts you'd perhaps gain an understanding of where they are coming from and not peddle ill informed half truths to people who unfortunately might listen and injure themselves following your advice.

 

You think you'll loose ground because you have a couple of days off when your hand starts hurting? No, you won't. Will you loose ground because you get to a point where you can't play your instrument for more than few minutes a day for months on end... yes you will.

 

Why take a risk, why tell other people to take a risk?

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Posted

 

Thanks guys, i have been resting/cutting back on the harder type of playing, common sense kicked in with that one, i also think part of the problem is using a mouse and keyboard all day everyday at work, my fingers just feel tired all the time. I cant see a way round that one really

 

 

Yeh, I work in IT so my hands/wrists get battered from both my job and my hobby. One thing that helped me is looking after my posture at work and being aware enough to take regular breaks. Same when you're playing - take regular short breaks, even if it is just 30 secs for some stretches, watch your posture and try to stay relaxed. Try and vary your routine a bit.

 

As MC says I'm not a doctor so I won't attempt to figure out what your exact problem is, but, like most people here - I will tell you that ignoring a cronic problem that sticks with you after you finish the said activity is generally a very bad idea.

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Posted

How the hell do you know I'm not a doctor?

 

Because I don't think you know what you're talking about.

 

Why take a risk, why tell other people to take a risk?

 

I told someone to take a risk? That's untrue. I'm actually the only one here who said "when in doubt ask a doctor. don't just rest." Which is the best advice given in this thread.

 

And for the record I meant a real doctor, not a pretend online doctor.

 

That being said, here's the deal. Pure and simple. Every single competent guitarist in history has worked through pain. Period. End of story.

 

I have discussed this at length with more than one gracious doctor in recent times and not a single one of them said "automatic rest" is the correct solution for discomfort in guitar students. In fact they all gave some variation of the same answer which distills down into, "Nothing wrong with playing through general discomfort, that's part of the process -- but when in doubt ask a doctor".

 

And that's what I will re-iterate. There are two kinds of pain, that which causes injury and needs to be avoided -- and that which doesn't lead to injury. If you want to be a skilled guitarist you will need to work through a certain quantity of the latter on your way up, we've all done it, and students will continue to do it until the end of time. It's a natural part of the process and it's healthy. Perseverance builds determination.

 

Playing guitar is a physical pursuit, all physical pursuits have a pain component involved with the development of skill whether that be horseback riding or Ultimate frisbee -- you have no option. Like it or lump it. Learn your limits and when in doubt ask a doctor. :thu:

 

As MC says I'm not a doctor so I won't attempt to figure out what your exact problem is, but, like most people here - I will tell you that ignoring a cronic problem

 

This guy has no chronic problem, and no one here has advised him to "ignore a chronic" problem. Have some perspective and actually read the posts, i.e. "Playing 17 years and in the past few weeks hand feels tired." Sheesh... :poke:

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Posted

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on HC.

 

doogie_howser_md-show.jpg

 

I prescribe rest, switch to 9's, and a glass of red wine with dinner.

 

And stop smoking.

 

That will be $150.

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Posted

switch to 9's

 

No diff.

 

Here's the deal = most of the top doctors that treat music related injuries (yes RSI) do so by teaching people to warm up, cross train and/or by modifying equipment. The key to RSI is the R. Eliminate the repetition and you win. That doesn't mean taking time off and it doesn't mean putting down your guitar. It simply means modifying what you are doing and how you are doing it.

 

It's not the act of playing guitar which is causing this, it's the sudden switch to 3nps -- and, I'm guessing, repetitive runs based on those patterns. Just don't do *that* and you're fine. After all, it was fine for 17 years right?

 

The number one method of successful treatment by the top guys right now is selective cross training, i.e. more activity. Not more rest. But very specific activity to create balance. Ask a doctor, you'll see. :thu:

 

a glass of red wine with dinner.


And stop smoking.

 

:)

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Posted

 

This guy has no chronic problem, and no one here has advised him to "ignore a chronic" problem. Have some perspective and actually
read the posts
, i.e. "Playing 17 years and in the past few weeks hand feels tired." Sheesh... :poke:

 

 

"my fretting hand has started to feel tired all the time and i can mostly feel it in my knuckles."

 

"all the time" sounds like a chronic problem to me?

 

Pain/discomfort is fine, as long as it is isn't persistant and constant.

 

You know I think we sort of agree but have very different emphasis... the important difference is nothing bad can happen following my advice.

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Posted

Calgary, in principle I agree with SOME of what you are saying.

 

Knotty - like me - suffered from an injury. It is very scary to have that issue happen to you. Hearing your advice honestly makes me cringe. Not that you are necessarily wrong. But it needs to be comprehended properly.

 

Most of the time injuries like this were assisted by the "no pain, no gain" mentality we are all taught. This can be a dangerous attitude for some genetic makeups.

 

Young people feel so invincible and have a massive hunger to rip out licks at lightning speed - damn the consequences. We've all been there. SOME of the people reading this are these young inexperienced types. If one of them misinterprets your words it can have dire consequences.

 

One that possibly could have been avoided.

 

Slight discomfort, soreness the usual stuff that comes with training any muscles - fine. Pain - that is a different matter - stop for a day or two and get it looked at.

 

I wish I did.

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Posted

on this whole issue of "rest" or "work thru it" i have to say one thing. there is a world of difference between common fatigue and pain. the fatigue comes from doing 3nps exercises, you can work thru fatigue but if you push too hard you WILL cause damage. if you work thru fatigue and then take a GOOD REST you will actually build muscle memory and strength in your fingers/hands. if your playing and you experience pain it becomes pretty obvious to stop and talk to a doctor. having suffered major damage to my hands and fingers over the years i can safely say, IF YOU HAVE PAIN FROM PLAYING THE GUITAR CONSULT A DOCTOR! its not worth the debilitating effects of trying to "work thru" pain...

 

im no doctor so take the advice for what its worth...

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Posted

 

Calgary, in principle I agree with SOME of what you are saying.


Knotty - like me - suffered from an injury. It is very scary to have that issue happen to you. Hearing your advice honestly makes me cringe. Not that you are necessarily wrong. But it needs to be comprehended properly.


Most of the time injuries like this were assisted by the "no pain, no gain" mentality we are all taught. This can be a dangerous attitude for some genetic makeups.


Young people feel so invincible and have a massive hunger to rip out licks at lightning speed - damn the consequences. We've all been there. SOME of the people reading this are these young inexperienced types. If one of them misinterprets your words it can have dire consequences.


One that possibly could have been avoided.


Slight discomfort, soreness the usual stuff that comes with training any muscles - fine. Pain - that is a different matter - stop for a day or two and get it looked at.


I wish I did.

 

 

Cheers, well put and exactly my thoughts too.

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