Does anybody ever NOT use a metronome?

[Stratman Tigers]

I've never really used one. When I try to, it actually throws me off. I got a friend on the other hand who lives and dies by his metronome, using it constantly. But he claims I am better at rhythm than he is. I just find it weird that I never could pick it up. I learned how to keep rhythm by playing along to CD's or live bootlegs for hours. When I then first played in a band setting, I had no problem playing alongside a live drummer. Anybody else out there like that? Teachers, how do you introduce your students to metronomes?

[jeremy_green]

I use one all the time. Its essentially exactly the same as having a drummer ... not sure what is tripping you up. Maybe just pretend it is a kick drum.

[Megatron_69]

I use it when I'm pushing my limits on certain techniques.

 

Sometimes I don't use it though. Purposely.

 

I think It's important to tap your foot to everything you play though. Running note groupings through scales and arps w/ metronome is only going to get you so far rhythmically. Lots of guys can do that and still not be able to tap their foot through tunes or even things they've wrote.

 

I use a metronome way more on my classical studies.

[yem]

 

I've never really used one. When I try to, it actually throws me off.

 

 

Is the sound of the beep or click that throws you?

[gennation]

I've been using one for over 25 years. I don't use it every day but I do use it frequently. I also teach my student how to use it and run through just about everything we learn playing along with a metronome.

 

It take time getting use to it for sure. Just stick with it because it's not throwing you off anything, you're just not use to working with it, and once you are use will have the ability to do many things time-wise with it.

[heavy D]

It's like anything- you can play with it, to it, against it, etc. You can think of it as part of what you're playing or as something that's not heard- part of your subconscious.

 

My guess is you're trying to play with it, but the thing is that click isn't very musical. I mean the sound of it. When you set it do you have it set on every beat? Maybe try just twos and fours- I find it's easier for me to treat it as more of a subconscious thing if it's not on every beat.

[Music Calgary]

I don't use them except when trying to identify or fix something specific. I always work everything out against backing tracks or real drummers -- and that's what I encourage students to focus on. We're playing music for humans, not computers...

 

Good musical timing has nothing to do with what a metronome generates.

 

Notice that almost all the greats play with time. Joe Walsh is a prime example -- his timing is incredibly loose and he is incredibly interesting to listen to. I've often wondered if there's any connection between using a metronome daily and eliminating the grit from your timing.

 

Jeff Beck, Johnny Winter, SRV, Jimi, Santana, EVH, Michael Hedges, John Scofield, Mike Stern, Brian May - I've heard them all play with time.

 

Paul Gilbert is a great example to me of a guy who is a phenomenal guitarist but boring in person because he is just so metronomic. We got through about 4 tunes at his clinic and split, what a yawn. Nice guy, incredible musician, incredibly predictable performer...

 

EVH to me is a great example of a guy who is really great at controlling time to create tension -- much more interesting. Another guy I've seen play with time live. Sometimes he's way out there but it always comes full circle and blows your mind in the end.

 

When I say "play with time" I don't mean "play out of time", I mean that they manipulate time intentionally -- to loosen it up here and there and keep things elastic. Often that means starting or finishing phrases out of of time. Almost all my favorite players have an elasticity to their playing which was developed by playing with real drummers.

 

It all depends what you want to sound like. To me guys like Jeff Beck or Gatemouth Brown are just a lot more interesting to listen to than guys like Paul Gilbert or Kirk Hammett (though those guys are awesome) -- so my opinions are thusly influenced. I enjoy musicians who do not identify with metronomic playing.

 

"Practicing with a metronome defeats the whole purpose of practicing"

- Jeff Berlin

[Music Calgary]

James Jamerson, Jerry Jemmott, Rocco Prestia, Jaco Pastorius, Larry Graham, Stanley Clarke. They never used a metronome to give them what they all had, which is killer time.

 

http://www.mikevisceglia.com/jeffb.html

 

How do the advocates of metronomes explain that some of the greatest bass, drum, guitar, keyboard, string and horn players in music history didn't use metronomes and still have perfect time?

 

A lot of history's most sought after musicians probably wouldn't do too well playing to a metronome. I wonder how a guy like Bob Marley would have stacked up playing scales to a metronome or Neil Young? I *love* those guys...

 

As I said earlier, some musicians don't like to think because this question should shake up every musician who reads it.

 

If you aren't familiar with Jeff Berlin -- he knows time. Here he is demonstrating it with Gambale and Colaiuta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6at4jSG3cUc

 

With Jaco:

 

With Victor Wooten:

 

EDIT: One more Jeff Berlin link just simply because it contains some of the finest bass playing (and elastic timing) I have ever witnessed:

 

Godammmmmmm... Anyhow at least you know now, not everyone advocates metronomes. So it's a two-sided coin at the very least.

[tony44]

I'm self taught and been playing for about 10 years. Just this week I started taking lessons and using a metronome. That combined with toe tapping has been a total revelation for me. I've never enjoyed playing more and pick things up a lot quicker.

[pjackson92]

i never use a metronome and have the best sense of rhythm in my band

[Music Calgary]

toe tapping

 

Some top musicians get really miffed if you toe tap -- PJ Perry used to tell people, "If you must then at least have the decency to do it *inside* your shoe!"

[jonfinn]

I keep a metronome handy at all the times. It lives in my gig bag.

I use it maybe 25% of the time I spend practicing.

 

I used to use it as a tool when pushing my speed up. But these days, I like using it to keep me honest about my sense of time.

 

Try setting it to 50bpm, then play an E9 funk groove where the metronome clicks on beats "2" and "4"

 

Lemme know how it works out!

[Poparad]

 

I keep a metronome handy at all the times. It lives in my gig bag. I use it maybe 25% of the time I spend practicing. I used to use it as a tool when pushing my speed up. But these days, I like using it to keep me honest about my sense of time.

 

 

Same here. Whenever I work on something that is rhythmically uncomfortable or unsure for me, I use the metronome to see if there are any tendencies for me to rush or drag.

[Music Calgary]

Try setting it to 50bpm, then play an E9 funk groove where the metronome clicks on beats "2" and "4" Lemme know how it works out!

 

Great little exercise. Took me a minute to lock in but once I did it felt really good actually.

[Mr Songwriter]

I practiced with a metronome for a while and I guess they're good for learning to play fast, metronomic music, but now that I've got a drum machine I find I'm getting better at playing along with shuffle grooves and other more syncopated beats.

[mosiddiqi]

I only use one when I'm working on specific technical problems. Most of the time I'm either jamming with songs or just have a drum machine going or even just my foot.. Music Calgary's point is interesting in that I doubt if Keith Richards has ever worked with a metronome in his life, yet his playing has real groove. I'd guess the same applies for any of the guitar players James Brown ever had. It's a great tool for practice, but I don't think timing is just about being metronomic.

[Kuroyume]

If you can't internalize the beat (or tap 'inside your shoe' - ahem) after some time, why are you playing music?

 

Do you realllllllly think that Mozart had a metronome when he composed every instrumental part of his symphonic masterpieces?

 

Metronomes are good when you are learning to play. They should be gone when you have reached some level of musicianship. Syncopation can't be imparted by a metronome, imho.

[JazzyShredder]

I use a metronome ALL THE TIME, but I also tap my foot with the metronome. And when I'm trying to figure out the tempo of ANY song, I tap my foot with the beat.

 

And as for the "elasticity" of time that certain players have, practicing with a metronome can actually make you better at manipulating that "elasticity" yourself. From what I understand, when you're referring to "elasticity", you're basically referring to the player changing the rhythm of his playing in a free style. This can practiced with a metronome in this manner (infact this is one of my most favourite exercises):

 

Take a slow tempo on the metronome, say 75 bpm. On the first beat, play 1 npb. On the second beat, play 4 npb. On the third beat, play 2 npb. Just like this, vary your rhythmic subdivision of the beat randomly. REMEMBER THE POINT HERE IS TO BE RANDOM WITH THE BEAT DIVISIONS! The so-called "elasticity" (or the way the interpret the word in this context) is done this way, albeit not in a random manner.

[Machine Gun]

 

I've been using one for over 25 years. I don't use it every day but I do use it frequently. I also teach my student how to use it and run through just about everything we learn playing along with a metronome.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I need kind of a guide to help walk though it.

[jeremy_green]

not to be argumentative here but the whole topic of elasticity is a pretty advanced topic no? If a guy struggles playing along to a click he is clearly not ready to "play with time"

 

A click is no different than playing with a good drummer. You can still feel the subdivisions and mess about if you choose to

 

Also naming some of the great players in history is not helpful when speaking to a group of mostly basement rock stars. No those types of players could get away with a lot of different habits. What makes them great is between their ears. To do as I.e. "Eddie Van Halen does" is great discussion as points of interest or to validate an argument. But it is really not helpful.

 

Metronomes are very useful tools. Any musician should have no discomfort with one. They work.

[Knottyhed]

 

I've never really used one. When I try to, it actually throws me off. I got a friend on the other hand who lives and dies by his metronome, using it constantly. But he claims I am better at rhythm than he is. I just find it weird that I never could pick it up. I learned how to keep rhythm by playing along to CD's or live bootlegs for hours. When I then first played in a band setting, I had no problem playing alongside a live drummer. Anybody else out there like that? Teachers, how do you introduce your students to metronomes?

 

 

No offence, and maybe I am wrong but I'd guess this:

 

Taking what you say at face value, if you can't play properly in time with a metronome you have no understanding of time signature or note subdivisions but can subconsiously feel the rythmn when playing with CD's and other people. Perhaps you just have a natural feel.

 

However, I used to think metronomes were distracting and thought I could play in time cos it sounded alright to me and nobody ever said anything in band rehearsals. If my experience is anything to go by i'd guess it's also likely your timing is crap and you just don't know it, your friend is either being nice, or hasn't yet practiced enough (or isn't practicing properly) to reap the benefits. If he really thought your timing was so brilliant he'd have thrown away his metronome and practiced playing along to CD's like you did.

 

Maybe you only ever play 4/4 songs that are rythmically simple, maybe you're playing in a band where everyone's timing is suspect and none of you know it because you've not recorded (I see bands all the time with no clue they aren't in time, in fact my own band sometimes feels like this!). Maybe you play a style of music where rock solid timing isn't so crucial (blues springs to mind).

 

I know one thing, you cannot evaluate how in time you are by playing to CD's and backing tracks, or with bands unless you actually record yourself and listen back. You're probably in for a shock if you do.

[Knottyhed]

 

Syncopation can't be imparted by a metronome, imho.

 

 

That's because you don't understand how to use one!!

[3red]

it's just another thing to keep track of. i will turn the fan on or my wife plays drums

[Music Calgary]

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Kuroyume View Post Syncopation can't be imparted by a metronome, imho. That's because you don't understand how to use one!!

 

 

No offense but "using a metronome properly" is absolutely no way to develop great skills at syncopating -- you ***NEED*** to play with drummers. And not your wife either, someone with skills. Someone who will feed you new ideas on a daily basis. Period.

 

I know of no interesting guitarists who didn't cut their teeth with real drummers.

[Silverfox]

I hardly ever play with a metronome, I hate the annoying beep noise.

 

Beep

 

Beep

 

Beep

 

*smashes metronome*