Members jeremy_green Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 The term "shredder" has always been a little elusive to me. In my definition:I consider a shredder someone who uses sweeping as one of the main parts of their style. Lots of pattern and scale type playing and less "licks" per se. Mostly really fast non-musical lines based on RPM. Very little groove. Lots of guys get thrown into this category who I never really thought of that way (Frank Gambale, Steve Vai, Satch etc). Just because they are "fast" they get called shredders. To Jazz and Blues guys being a "shredder" is a derogatory term. To young guys it is a badge of honour. Huh? Help me define and understand this. Thanks!!
Members Virgman Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 Shredding is like obscenity. It's hard to define but I know it when I see/hear it. I think it has to incorporate very fast scalar like passages played with metronomic rhythm. Usually triplet 16ths notes or greater. It is also generally played over simple one or two chord vamps and power chords that allow the player to avoid complex key changes. Therefore the knock that shred playing lacks emotion like the blues. If you play fast enough it sounds good. Not fast enough and you expose the off-key notes in the passage so it sounds bad. Shred playing is put in a song for brief periods for excitement. A little is good. More than a little is boring. It sounds good in a certain context. To me personally I only put alternate pickers or economy pickers on a high plane. Legato players don't impress me as much.
Members 1001gear Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 I believe shred is a surfer term. Take the difficulty to insane.
Members Pankot Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 From my recollection (being old enough to remember the days when shredding was something you did to your garden waste and occasionally to your accounts ) the term "shred" came about from an allusion to the sound of playing very rapidly with the gain-heavy, mid-scooped tone that first became popular in the 80's. Lots of bedroom players would practice scales and arpeggios for hours as technical precision was in fashion. (The pendulum is forever swinging back and forth between technical and non-technical: prog -> punk -> 80s metal -> grunge -> technical death metal, for example) I don't think sweeping was initially a requirement - indeed, fast alternate picking was better placed to produce the aggressive, "shredding" sound. But the term spread outward to embrace any sort of playing that was very fast and using that speed as a way to grab the listener's attention. As the 90s dawned and flashy guitar playing fell out of fashion, it was no longer mainstream "cool" to play in that way, and so "shredding" acquired a negative connotation. Consequently it became and still is a easy, lazy way to express disapproval of a player. If someone can play fast and you like his music, then he's "a god", or "sick," or somesuch. If he can play fast and you don't like the music, then he's "a two-bit shredder". Don't forget to throw in the "unemotional" word too! Your definition fits in with this general use, because your shredders are "non-musical" with "Very little groove". However that isn't as bright a line as it might look, because what is or is not "musical" and what does or does not "groove" are often matters of opinion and taste. The guys for whom shredding is "a badge of honour" are just using the original term while discarding the implicit value judgement it has now acquired. They are shredders because the guitar players and styles they admire and emulate are those from the "age of shred", circa 83-89. Not sure if this really helps you at all!
Members jeremy_green Posted October 16, 2008 Author Members Posted October 16, 2008 So are: Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, Richie Blackmore, Zakk Wilde, Eric Johnson, Steve Morse shredders? All fast, all high gain (mostly) To me the answer is no. Paul Gilbert, Ywingie Malmsteen - yes
Members mosiddiqi Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 For me, anyone that can play faster than Ritchie Blackmore/Uli Roth/Michael Schenker/Frank Marino/ I classify as a "shredder"...some are just more musical than others, to my ears that is. Eric Johnson, who I've only just got into is a deeply musical player, as is Steve Morse, MAB?..not so much for me..great player, but I don't find his music that interesting.
Members Jasco Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 So are: Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, Richie Blackmore, Zakk Wilde, Eric Johnson, Steve Morse shredders? All fast, all high gain (mostly) To me the answer is no. Paul Gilbert, Ywingie Malmsteen - yes If you want a definition for 'shredder', you might look up 'wanker'. It's a synonym. EVH, Rhoads, Eric Johnson, Morse = great players Gilbert and Pee-Wee Yngsteen = wankers See.
Members Virgman Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 Joe Pass could shred but managed not to wank. [YOUTUBE]Npy3DlV98yM[/YOUTUBE]
Members prplhz Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 I always thought it just mean playing fast. Those guys who play nonsense NPS are just wankers. I never enjoyed that type of stuff. I consider EVH, Zakk, Randy, Dime shredders. They play(ed) the {censored} out of their instruments.
Members HeimBrent Posted October 16, 2008 Members Posted October 16, 2008 A dude with WAY to much time on his hands, normally japaneese or chineese, that thinks he can get chicks by playing 10-minute solos faster than anyone else. They also tend to have NO clue about music when it comes to what really matters, like the feel of the song, but are somewhat set on doing things within the rules they learned when they payed some dude a hellovalot of money to learn them music theory. Oh, and yeah. They tend to be somewhat... Flamboyant. In a bad way.
Members Virgman Posted October 17, 2008 Members Posted October 17, 2008 Who is that? Joe PassFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Birth name Joseph Anthony PassalaquaBorn January 13, 1929(1929-01-13)New Brunswick, New JerseyDied May 23, 1994 (aged 65)Los Angeles, CaliforniaOccupation(s) Musician, composerInstrument(s) GuitarYears active 1943
Members JazzyShredder Posted October 17, 2008 Members Posted October 17, 2008 Shredder? Uhm...a vague term for me...I guess when most people refer to 'shred' they're usually talking about Malmsteen/Becker-style neoclassical shred playing. To me, though, any kind super fast/technical (or a combination of both) is shred. So, in that respect, Allan Holdsworth, Al Di Meola, Frank Gambale are all shredders in my book. Just my honest views about it, really. Maybe I'm viewing this term too broadly...
Members Drew5887 Posted October 19, 2008 Members Posted October 19, 2008 I think a shredder is a really specific type of guitarist. When I think of a shredder I imagine a long haired 80's gimmicky guitarist who can play really quickly. Shred is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is easily abused. But seriously, all the shred hate is lame. I mean, just because you can play really fast does not mean that you can't make great emotional music. Just ask Mozart, or Liszt, or Joe Pass. So stop hating on people with technique.
Members DOUBLE J64 Posted October 19, 2008 Members Posted October 19, 2008 Joe Pass could shred but managed not to wank.My GOD that was F'ing Boring!
Members 1001gear Posted October 19, 2008 Members Posted October 19, 2008 I think a shredder is a really specific type of guitarist. When I think of a shredder I imagine a long haired 80's gimmicky guitarist who can play really quickly. Shred is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is easily abused. But seriously, all the shred hate is lame. I mean, just because you can play really fast does not mean that you can't make great emotional music. Just ask Mozart, or Liszt, or Joe Pass. So stop hating on people with technique. You know those guys don't answer my calls anymore. I wonder if summins wrong? Shred bashing is about the gratuitous daisy chaining of very often, juvenile exercises. I think Wolfie and Franz get a different rap. I don't think it was ever about bad music. lolz.
Members Drew5887 Posted October 20, 2008 Members Posted October 20, 2008 Shred bashing is about the gratuitous daisy chaining of very often, juvenile exercises. Yeah, its called chops builders. They are part of a balanced breakfast. But people seem to think that there is a necessary choice between feeling and speed, and its a total false choice.
Members lukeswall Posted October 20, 2008 Members Posted October 20, 2008 Robert Fripp, of King Crimson, has one hell of a hand for soulful playing (after all, half of his work is guitar soundscaping) and he can shred his ass off.the song Frakctured has some searing shred going on.
Members jeremy_green Posted October 20, 2008 Author Members Posted October 20, 2008 So we seem split on it. I am really no further ahead. Seems I am not alone in failing to understand this term. Seems the only real agreed upon aspect is speed. So if you are fast in the fingers you are a shredder? If we include the likes of (the incredible) joe pass in here you could then say SRV is a shredder?? I am confused - So then is to be a shredder a good thing?
Members Virgman Posted October 20, 2008 Members Posted October 20, 2008 I don't mean Joe Pass was a shredder, but he could shred. I don't think EVH is a shredder. But Vinnie Moore is. SRV isn't. But Paul Gilbert is. Frank Gambale is. Ace Freeley isn't. John Petrucci is. Robin Trower isn't. Confusing isn't it?
Members 1001gear Posted October 20, 2008 Members Posted October 20, 2008 So we seem split on it. I am really no further ahead. Seems I am not alone in failing to understand this term. Seems the only real agreed upon aspect is speed. So if you are fast in the fingers you are a shredder? If we include the likes of (the incredible) joe pass in here you could then say SRV is a shredder??I am confused - So then is to be a shredder a good thing? Well there's hot shredding - Petrushka for solo piano for instance and then there's the mono dimensional streaming that Heim Brent back there is alluding to. You can decide for yourself.
Members jeremy_green Posted October 20, 2008 Author Members Posted October 20, 2008 I don't mean Joe Pass was a shredder, but he could shred.I don't think EVH is a shredder. But Vinnie Moore is.SRV isn't. But Paul Gilbert is.Frank Gambale is. Ace Freeley isn't. John Petrucci is. Robin Trower isn't.Confusing isn't it? Virgman, I completely agree with your assessments of shredding. Just really not certain why - and that's cool. Not that this topic really matters but it is interesting to me that just going by how you feel when you hear a player, the players note choices and nuances make the difference of how the listener perceives him/her - drastically. Music is a very powerful language. We all know this, but it is interesting to me to see it in practice. Every time discussions like this come up - people who you have never met, in places you have never been, can draw the exact same conclusions on essentially an abstract medium. No words only sounds. It's not coincidence either.
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