Members nautaflcl Posted November 16, 2008 Members Posted November 16, 2008 So I wanted to know from anyone who has the knowledge, what makes bands such as protest the hero or the human abstract, math metal, or any other bands considered to be highly technical and mathematical.What is it behind the theory that makes it sound the way it does?What makes it "math"???I know my theory to a certain point, i know my major and minor modes, my circle of fifths, the modes, and chord construction.And I've noticed a few things, but I don't get it, what makes it that stuff?Please give an example if you try to explain any theory.thanks.
Members timsea Posted November 16, 2008 Members Posted November 16, 2008 you're thinking too much... 'math' just means weird time signatures, surprising changes the listener thinks must be counted as opposed to felt... old dillinger escape plan was a pretty quintessential example for me... too bad they suck now. Anyway, I think when people say 'math' they really mean 'surprising', and the rationale behind the name is that unexpected things are transposed through counting some strange foreign formula... the result is chaotic and often dissonant. In reality it isn't based on a formula at all, probably less, in fact than the traditional theory of the circle of fifths and keys you mentioned in your post. In a lot of ways it's actually very much a departure from that, with no tonal center, the focus of the music more on chaotic rhythm than melody, chromaticism and abstract song structure.
Members Slackmaster Posted November 16, 2008 Members Posted November 16, 2008 Just another label for a flavor of metal with irregular time and dense, outside melody. There is no real math involved. The beauty of music theory is that it's pretty much the same for whatever you play.
Members c+t in b Posted November 16, 2008 Members Posted November 16, 2008 wow those bands are terrible. for me, odd time signatures sound best when they DONT sound like odd time signatures. i hate it when bands think theyre doing something intellectual when they used an odd time signature but only do it with a metronomical groove instead of a musical groove
Members Jasco Posted November 16, 2008 Members Posted November 16, 2008 wow those bands are terrible. for me, odd time signatures sound best when they DONT sound like odd time signatures. i hate it when bands think theyre doing something intellectual when they used an odd time signature but only do it with a metronomical groove instead of a musical groove +1
Members Santuzzo Posted November 17, 2008 Members Posted November 17, 2008 +1 Listen to some Meshuggah, Tesseract or Fellsilent ! Will you still call those bands terrible? You may not like that particular style of music, but that doesn't make those bands terrible, does it? After all, who's to define what's 'musical' and what's not?!?!
Members SunofNothing Posted November 17, 2008 Members Posted November 17, 2008 Listen to some Meshuggah, Tesseract or Fellsilent ! Will you still call those bands terrible? You may not like that particular style of music, but that doesn't make those bands terrible, does it? After all, who's to define what's 'musical' and what's not?!?! Agreed. It's matter opinion so i'm not going to get into it. But saying something is terrible and not backing up what you think is good doesn't really help nautaflcl. To answer the question with my limited knowledge i would agree with timsea. You're overthinking it. While some bands may not have a tonal center or follow music rules plenty of tech/prog bands still do. Now when i read this i thought of bands like Between the Between and Me, Opeth, and Dillinger. BTBAM still follows music theory most of time. In their songs they have tons of parts and time signature changes, but most of it still is in a certain key. Instead of following normal structure they go crazy. They still obey music theory, just think of it as writing a song with tons of parts. Watch out though, them and Opeth will change keys. It's considered tech because of odd time sigs, the breaks, and tons of parts. ask more questions and i will do my best to give you better answers with examples next time.
Members Virgman Posted November 17, 2008 Members Posted November 17, 2008 Now, this is MUSIC... [YOUTUBE]D5EgASje8MQ[/YOUTUBE]
Members sumpm1 Posted November 17, 2008 Members Posted November 17, 2008 I thought I chimed in on another "math metal" thread, hmm. I think what the "math sound" refers to is the random or fiddly high pitch sequences that sound like you're just hitting the keys of your telephone really fast! Kinda sounds like what old computers and robots sound effects from movies, like R2D2 talking really fast, like it was doing math?
Members c+t in b Posted November 17, 2008 Members Posted November 17, 2008 Listen to some Meshuggah, Tesseract or Fellsilent ! Will you still call those bands terrible? You may not like that particular style of music, but that doesn't make those bands terrible, does it? After all, who's to define what's 'musical' and what's not?!?! i actually like meshuggah. i wasnt denouncing the mathy bands out there, just the first two examples posted in the thread. More than anything, the whiny singer killed it for me
Members Vats Posted November 17, 2008 Members Posted November 17, 2008 I understand that a lot of people will not dig music with too much rhythmic complexity but I personally love it. As for the "math" bit, I've found it useful to know how to calculate LCM's to play polyrhythmic music. Fibonacci progressions also comes into play in the music of bands such as Meshuggah and Tool.
Members jonfinn Posted November 17, 2008 Members Posted November 17, 2008 The relationship between Math and Music has been ongoing for a very long time. Bach's music, even though it's gorgeous to listen to, is very mathematical in it's nature. Many of it's characteristics can be explained via math formulas. But I think the math comes after the music was created in his case. I don't know about the bands you refer to..... There's an urban legend that Bach showed up to his weekly church-organ gig unprepared once. He was supposed to perform an original piece at the Mass and hadn't written anything (too busy teaching lessons that week) so he decided to improvise. His strategy: -Spontaneously compose a melody and perform it as is with his right hand. -At the same time, perform the exact melody backwards with his left hand. -Track the implied harmony created by the two lines with his feet on the bass pedals. To do all that on command means you have an enormous capacity for mathematical/musical anaylsis. I don't know if the legend is true, but if it is, my brain hurts just thinking about it.
Members The Burninator Posted November 18, 2008 Members Posted November 18, 2008 As far as I know the "math" in "math metal" has something to do withdifferent time signatures payed simultaniously. Maybe you'll find a better answer in Meshuggah's forum/s:http://www.tandjent.com/meshforum/forumdisplay.php?f=16
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