Silly modes question

[Sidd]

I'm kind of a n00b...

 

I've been playing with a very simple song in G... just I IV I V basically. When I start my G major scale on the 4th scale degree, I get C Lydian mode, right? Why does this mode sound so weird played in the key of G?

 

It sounds much better when I play C mixolydian, making it a dominant IV chord. Is this more common to do?

 

Please help me out!

[Poparad]

Modes aren't determined by what note you start a scale one. Modes are determined by what chord you play a set of notes with, and in a progression, which chord sounds like the tonic.

 

A I IV V progression in G major will never be anything but G major. There is no way to make that modal when using only the notes of the G major scale. You have to change the progression to make it modal. If you play only over a C major chord but still play a G major scale, then that would be C lydian. It's important that C is heard as the tonic, and not G.

 

As for switching to C mixolydian on a IV chord in a I IV V, this is the approach for blues playing. All three chords are turned into dominant 7th chords, so the actual notes being played change slightly from chord to chord, as opposed to just sticking in the key of G major for the entire progression.

[Sidd]

If you play only over a C major chord but still play a G major scale, then that would be C lydian. It's important that C is heard as the tonic, and not G.

 

 

This is exactly what I've been doing... So the important thing is tonicizing each chord? I get it now I think...

 

Playing C Lydian over a C triad weird 'cus there's no F# in C. Is that it?

 

Thanks for the excellent and rapid response!

[jonfinn]

I'm kind of a n00b... I've been playing with a very simple song in G... just I IV I V basically. When I start my G major scale on the 4th scale degree, I get C Lydian mode, right? Why does this mode sound so weird played in the key of G? It sounds much better when I play C mixolydian, making it a dominant IV chord. Is this more common to do? Please help me out!

 

 

It's possible you might not be providing enough information to get a coherent answer. If it's I IV V but blues-based in G, C lydian will sound kinda funny over the IV chord.

 

The short answer is "Play what sounds good."

 

It doesn't mean that modes don't work, it means they "don't work in every situation."

[timsea]

Both answers thus far are definitely right on. If you're doing what it sounds like you're doing and switching positions to what you had (and many other do) confuse to be 'c lydian', you're still in G major, like Poparad said. If that's what you're doing, you're not doing anything wrong, just follow jonfinn's advice and 'do what sounds good'. If you're too stuck in 'pattern' mode you could very well just be stressing the wrong notes. The sure fire way to not sound out of key is to only play the notes of the chord. You can play the others in passing and sound fine, but if you play a melody that really centers around the D over top the C chord, for example, you'll be spelling out a C9, which might go completely against the feel of the rest of the song and sound off. Sounds like you're getting a good grasp on it though, so keep at it and good luck!

[Poparad]

 

 

That's it there. The C major scale has an F natural in it, but the C lydian scale has an F# in it. This one note is the difference in sound between the two. Something that's in C lydian will use the notes of the C lydian scale (C D E F# G A B) and the tonic will be some kind of C major related chord (C major, Cmaj7, Cmaj9, etc that comes from the C lydian scale).

 

What makes modes hard to learn is simply the fact that most music isn't modal. Most music is in either a major or minor key and uses chord progressions that resolve to the tonics of the major or minor key.

 

Modal music, however, can take one of two forms: The first form, which is the older of the two approaches, picks a mode and sticks with it, just like most songs stick a major or minor key and stick with it. The music usually doesn't have a real chord progression, but instead will either stay on one chord or alternate between two, but rarely more, chords within the mode. Even with alternation, one of the chords has a strong feeling as being the tonic chord that is the focus of the mode/scale.

 

The second approach is more common for jazz, fusion, and similar styles. This basically takes the above modal approach, but changes keys/modes frequently. Each chord is it's own key/mode, and when the chord progression moves to the next chord, the set of notes that make up the scale that belong to it are usually different than what came before. For example, the progression of Gm7 -> Bbm7. There is no common scale between those two chords. Each chord would end up with a different set of notes. This kind of approach is like the first one but in fast forward, constantly changing scales for each chord, and not really having one overall tonic for the entire song.

[Sidd]

Man, stellar response. That makes a lot of sense.

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me out! I truly appreciate it.

[beisenla]

I have been working on modes as well. One of the things my teacher has me doing is writing small riffs, progressions, etc. that are modal in nature. If I am actually getting the content the goal is to identify the distinguishing characteristic(s) of the particular mode and work from there. As an example it could be something as simple as something like G Dorian. In this case I can take a G minor chord (1, b3, 5) and add the 6th (E) in this case. The combination of the b3rd and the 6 (more specifically) are what give the Dorian mode its character.

 

I am not sure I did a good job explaining and I am still learning so... At any rate it is interesting to look at things from this perspective instead of looking at things in a key.