Members therichardsgang Posted January 1, 2009 Members Posted January 1, 2009 Is it me, or is TAB reinventing the wheel?I play a lot with other musicians who present me with sheet music from which I have to play - I need to improve my music reading and can't seem to find any guitar websites that don't use TAB - as far as I can see, it is as complicated as score, but with the distinct disadvantage that I can't share with musicians with other instruments, and they don't present me with TAB to learn from either!Sure, it gives fret and string positions, but gives no indication of KEY, RHYTHM and only gives rudimentary timing information.How do others cope with this?
Members Stackabones Posted January 1, 2009 Members Posted January 1, 2009 Tab is easier to put on the web than standard notation. It can also be written without a special program. I use both tab and standard notation. I prefer standard notation, but tab has been useful to me in the past. btw, this topic sometimes brings out the Great Intarwebz War Tab v Standard Notation -- so, in the meantime ...
Members jonfinn Posted January 1, 2009 Members Posted January 1, 2009 Tab is pretty useful for (beginner and intermediate) guitarists who want to exchange information. It's easy to learn. There's a lot of tab stuff posted on the internet. But as you can see, musicians who aren't guitarists have little or no use for tab. I use tab when I'm writing an arrangement for a guitarist and I want to indicate exactly how it's played. But that will always be accompanied by standard notation too. I don't think I've ever been given a piece of music for a gig that had tab. even if it did, I doubt I'd trust it. When reading music that others have given me, I look at the black dots and try my best to interpret what they want me to do as quickly/accurately as I can. Figuring that out would take a long time to explain because there are so many ways to notate for guitar, and few people seem to agree. But it usually boils down to "play the music and sound good."
Members GreenAsJade Posted January 1, 2009 Members Posted January 1, 2009 Of course there _are) crutches for expressing key signature and timing in TAB, they are just unwieldy to enter without a program for doing it, so you don't see it much I'm not sure what the OP means "TAB is as complex as score". To read TAB only requires the ability to count, which the majority of people trying to learn guitar do have. On the other hand, to read score requires actual new learning: effectively memorisation of a whole pile of positions of dots and what they mean. Even worse, for guitar score, most of the dots are often off the top of the score, making them even less readily "readable". So I would have thought it's obvious "why do we have TAB'. it doesn't reinvent any wheels at all, it makes driving the wheelbarrow easier. Of course this _is_ at the expense of a lot of musical understanding on the part of the person learning it, and I agree with the implied sentiment that a musician would be better equipped if they can actually read the score. This doesn't make TAB "reinventing the wheel" though. GaJ (And, to be complete, TAB provides _very important_ information that _can't be_ represented in standard score: how to finger the notes. So you are trying to communicate to a fellow guitarist how to play something you just wrote, and score leaves you completely without a tool to tell them a vital piece of information: how is it practical to access the notes you want them to play. For a guitarist sight reading (especially chords) is a far more difficult task than on "linear" instruments, because there's this additional puzzle the brain has to solve for each and every note: where do I finger it? Probably because score was invented before this problem existed (though I'm no music historian, I can guess this is the case).
Members mcmurray Posted January 2, 2009 Members Posted January 2, 2009 The best thing about standard notation is that it's possible to read the score and hear the piece in your head. TAB does not allow for this.
Members Leo Plumtree Posted January 2, 2009 Members Posted January 2, 2009 I'm a "neither" sort of guy, preferring a numeric notation that applies to all instruments. Worldwide, a total of one person uses it.
Members therichardsgang Posted January 2, 2009 Author Members Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks guys, seems to me that... TAB has it's place and is very useful, but is only really for guitarists, and only if the guitarist already has some idea of how the tune should sound [timing wise] Score is perhaps more difficult to learn, but has advantages in that it is transferrable - ie other musicians can use it. as a guitarist who has to collaborate with other musicians who insist on score [pianists, sax players, violinists, flautist etc], I really need to bite the bullet and learn to read score properly
Members mcmurray Posted January 3, 2009 Members Posted January 3, 2009 Pick up "a modern method for guitar" volumes 1 to 3 by William Leavitt. If you can make it through that sucker you'll be the score master!
Members Reverend Cheese Posted January 3, 2009 Members Posted January 3, 2009 I really need to bite the bullet and learn to read score properly Don't know about the Leavitt books, but I would imagine them to be very good. If I recall they cover more than just notation though. As to books that focus on just reading only - I recommend these: Howard Roberts - Guitar: Sight Reading Manual. If you can find it. Unfortunately what might have been the BEST book ever for teaching guitarists to read is out of print and criminally neglected. When a copy can be found, they go for shameful prices (as in shame on the sellers) I lost my copy and have been unable to find a replacement. Sight to Sound by Leon White Guitar Reading Workbook by Bretts Tagliano And as supplements to those you'll want: Melodic Rhythms by W. Leavitt For Guitar Players Only by Tommy Tedesco These two titles are very, very useful. And you'll need to load up on TONS of written music to read. Anything written for violin will work too, as it's in the same register. I keep a copy of the "Real Book" (jazz standards) and collections of J.S. Bach for that purpose. You can also find TONS of music on the Web that you can print out as well.
Members One Vision Posted January 6, 2009 Members Posted January 6, 2009 I used Alfred's Basic Guitar Method. But I played Piano prior to guitar, so that helped me a bit. It's definetly worth learning. I think it's the only musical barrier for guitarists.
Members Li Shenron Posted January 7, 2009 Members Posted January 7, 2009 If you already know the song (i.e. if you have had it on a CD and listened to it many time etc.) TAB is much faster to get you to play the song. When I write down my own notes as part of learning a cover, TAB is way faster: I already know the notes and the timing, all I need is to figure out the best fret position for each note. If it's an original piece, or if you need to swap the sheet with other instruments, standard notation is better.
Members jonfinn Posted January 7, 2009 Members Posted January 7, 2009 If you already know the song (i.e. if you have had it on a CD and listened to it many time etc.) TAB is much faster to get you to play the song. When I write down my own notes as part of learning a cover, TAB is way faster: I already know the notes and the timing, all I need is to figure out the best fret position for each note.If it's an original piece, or if you need to swap the sheet with other instruments, standard notation is better. Yeah. I never use tab in that way simply because I came up before tab came in to common use. If I write stuff down for me, I usually use standard notation. But if it's only for "my eyes" then I'm probably the only one who can read it (because its so sloppy or vague). If I'm notating an idea, all I want to do is remember it later so it doesn't really matter what it looks like as long as looking at it will help me remember. I've got several notebooks full of ideas/licks/partial tunes etc.... If I'm notating it for someone else to play, that's something else. Then I'll notate in the way I think that person needs to see it.
Members darkwaters Posted January 7, 2009 Members Posted January 7, 2009 I find music with score and tab below the most useful. When I'm playing my eyes stray back and forth between the two.
Members freetime Posted January 7, 2009 Members Posted January 7, 2009 I use tabs. I don't feel like investing 30 minutes into something that can take 3
Members Jasco Posted January 7, 2009 Members Posted January 7, 2009 Why is it TAB verses Standard? Learn both then use what means of notation you feel is best for your purposes. A third type of 'reading' you don't hear mentioned often is the ability to read chord charts (Maybe that falls under the category of standard notation?) Learn that too. Choosing to be ignorant of any popular methods of information transfer probably isn't the wisest choice one could make. Learn them all.
Members mcmurray Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 I use tabs. I don't feel like investing 30 minutes into something that can take 3 If playing by standard notation takes you 10 times longer than TAB, you're doing it wrong.
Members RedYagiDY Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 If playing by standard notation takes you 10 times longer than TAB, you're doing it wrong. THIS You can sight read standard, sight reading TAB is almost impossible.
Members bigboy_78 Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 It woudl be interesting to know how many of the pro-stantard crowd could read before they saw tab. I'd say most had lessons as youngsters, were "classically" trained at some point or more probably played piano as a kid. Where the guys that are all for TAB are probably self taught. Show of hands......
Members jonfinn Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 I honestly don't see it as a tab vs. notation discussion. Who cares how something gets notated? I certainly don't. I did get an email once from a young kid trying to get in Berklee who wanted to know if note reading "was so important since no-once uses it anymore" as he put it. From his point of view he's right. All his friends use tab. Why should anyone learn how to do something that seems MUCH harder? It's no big deal if you only want to communicate ideas with other amateur guitarists. Pros tend to function faster/better/more effectively with standard notation. I've heard this and bears repeating: The people who criticise the use/reading of standard notation are those who usually can't.
Members BoredGuitarist7 Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 Tab is MUCH easier.It's very hard to read sheet music, and figure out which positions to use for which chords and progress effectively with your chord changes... I don't see why people don't just use tab, and keep sheet for theory/writing.Myself? I can read it, but at a snails pace. Guitar is probably one of the harder instruments to read sheet for, because the same note appears multiple times throughout the fretboard.
Members bdemon Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 I honestly don't see it as a tab vs. notation discussion. Who cares how something gets notated? I certainly don't. I did get an email once from a young kid trying to get in Berklee who wanted to know if note reading "was so important since no-once uses it anymore" as he put it. From his point of view he's right. All his friends use tab. Why should anyone learn how to do something that seems MUCH harder?It's no big deal if you only want to communicate ideas with other amateur guitarists. Pros tend to function faster/better/more effectively with standard notation.I've heard this and bears repeating: The people who criticise the use/reading of standard notation are those who usually can't. Yup, that's been my experience, working with the kids. It can be brutal getting them to consider even a little bit of sight reading. My argument for notation (and I'd fake a sprained wrist if my jazz pals asked me to sit in with them on a gig) is that it increases your real estate value as a musician. Because you have one more useful skill--a common one among all instruments--you'll attract higher quality musicians to your circle. "That guitarist can actually READ music...he's gotta be at least a decent player if he's invested the time to do that." Something like that...
Members Auditroph Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 I use tab when I want to figure HOW to play something on guitar, I use notation when I want to figure WHAT something sounds like (or play another instrument). They're two different tools with two different purposes.
Members Li Shenron Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 You can sight read standard, sight reading TAB is almost impossible. The fact is that this is true if you're reading something you don't know. Like for instance, if you're in a professional band and someone prompts you with a new score to rehearse straight away. But personally, considering that I've always been a non-professional guitarist mostly in cover bands, the situation is reversed. We never had a situation when the singer for example came up with a song no one has heard before and handed out the score. Instead, in every band I've been we always went like "hey, let's play Bad Reputation by the Thin Lizzy!", then everyone goes home and listens for the song over and over for day until you "know how the song goes". At that point, you CAN sight-read the TABs, because you know how the melody and rhythm should sound like, but you still don't remember which frets to play. If you handle this situation with standard notation sheets, it's much harder, since the notes won't remind you which frets or chord shapes are the best choice.
Members mcmurray Posted January 8, 2009 Members Posted January 8, 2009 Tab is MUCH easier. It's very hard to read sheet music, and figure out which positions to use for which chords and progress effectively with your chord changes... I don't see why people don't just use tab, and keep sheet for theory/writing. Myself? I can read it, but at a snails pace. Guitar is probably one of the harder instruments to read sheet for, because the same note appears multiple times throughout the fretboard. I find TAB much harder to read that sheet music, it ends up being an exercise of counting frets which slows me down. Out of all instrumentalists, why is it that guitarists have so much trouble with standard notation? Violinists don't seem to have a problem, sight reading on a violin and a guitar would be very similair indeed.
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