Cut the Bullsh*t about playing guitar

[darkwaters]

One hour of performance is like a thousand hours of practice.

[JohnWTuggle]

It's kind of ironic. To truly master the guitar, you must learn that you will never master the guitar, and always continue to keep learning.

[Mark Wein]

It's kind of ironic. To truly master the guitar, you must learn that you will never master the guitar, and always continue to keep learning.

 

[JohnWTuggle]

You're all missing the point. It's all about buying gear. That's the easy path to becoming a truly proficient axeman

If I only had that 335 and a tweed Bassman miced with a U47 and a 57 running thru a couple 1073's straight to 2", then I would sound good!

That's only after is was double tracked with a 59 Paul and a 57 Strat!

[Z_Zoquis]

"A big part of this is that the more you play and the more you learn the more you realize how much there is to learn."

So true. I've been playing for about 20 years now (with one of those regrettable "10 year" layoffs prior to about three years ago). Over the past couple of years, my ear and playing has finally reached a point where I no longer waste any time looking for tabs of songs I want to learn. I can sit down and figure out (not play fluently of course, but figure out) the average rock tune lead parts and all in usually no more than about 20 minutes by ear. I take great pleasure in listening closely and trying to figure out the little "things" that make a given riff or lead line sound special whether it be the position a chord is played at or a subtle little bend up to a note instead of a slide or whatever. BUT, I still have no real confidence in my playing. I still can't go into a guitar store and sit down and blow anyone away. I've learned dozens of songs over the past few years and played in a couple of bands, but when I sit down in a shop to try a guitar out I often can't even think of a song to play. It's bizarre. Its getting slowly better but man, it's a long road.

Went out a couple weeks ago and saw a local band at a pub. The band was comprised of a group of local music scene "cats" - guys who own folk record shops and studios around town and so forth. They were my age or older (42) and quite frankly, they killed. I mean were talking awesome chops, vocal harmonies, and that sense you get from some players that they could comfortably sit in with anyone and sound good. Now I know I shouldn't be comparing myself to these guys becuase they've all been playing in bands for decades and have just way more experience than a weekend warrior like me, but it's tough not to get down on yrself when you see a local band like that that's just on such a different level.

Then, occasionally I'll remember that there was a time when just fingering a basic barre chord was an impossibility for me. Even back a few years ago when I first got back into playing, the whole notion of being a "lead" player was something I'd never have contemplated for myself. So progress has certainly been made over the years. I really regret the years I wasted not playing...

I wonder if Richard Thompson ever feels discouraged or thinks twice about referring to himself as a "guitarist."

[jonfinn]

I think the phenomenon of 12-year-old-eruption-playing-prodigy can be really misleading. They're certainly out there. It's very impressive to hear a kid playing his/her butt off after only playing for 6 months. If you talk with many of them, they'll kinda tell you "they've got it down." A kid like that will often get lots of attention over a very narrow skill set. But because they're rarely faced with a situation where they have to function outside their comfort zone, they often don't even know it exists.

I've met many "14-somethings" that can shred their banannas off but have absolutely no clue how to keep time, maintain song form, identify keys (i.e. basic musicianship skills). It's really common, and a little bit sad and harsh.

Over time, when the kid loses the "little kid" vibe, more is expected of them. If they can't deliver, they often blame the world and become bitter.

Be a musician. Not just a guitarist.

[Jamingguitarist]

There are some parts of practice though that aren't always fun. It's just like running sprints for sports, you gotta put in some hard work to get where you want to be

[SoliDeoGloria]

...So the web site that just popped up on telling me that I can be a guitar god in 3 days was lying?:poke:

Nah J/k... In total agreement here.

[Elias Graves]

From a guitar newbie.

I've played trumpet for over 20 years. Have a pretty good understanding of music. I decided to take up guitar several months ago. I could not believe the differences in the two instruments aside from the obvious brass/string thing.

I feel like I'm 12 again learning to play that tumpet for the first time. When I do see improvements in my skill, it is a real rush. I am enjoying the process. Hell, I spent over 20 hours a few months back just trying to learn one passage. I felt pretty good when I finally got it, though.

I thought that because I already knew quite a bit about music that it would come quickly, but was I wrong. Guitar is a difficult instrument to play well. I have so much more respect for my guitar heroes now than I ever did before.

So, from one newbie, I'll just say that it's fun, but I have no illusions about gtting there in a hurry.

EG

[Jasco]

I think the phenomenon of 12-year-old-eruption-playing-prodigy can be really misleading. They're certainly out there. It's very impressive to hear a kid playing his/her butt off after only playing for 6 months. If you talk with many of them, they'll kinda tell you "they've got it down." A kid like that will often get lots of attention over a very narrow skill set. But because they're rarely faced with a situation where they have to function outside their comfort zone, they often don't even know it exists. I've met many "14-somethings" that can shred their banannas off but have absolutely no clue how to keep time, maintain song form, identify keys (i.e. basic musicianship skills). It's really common, and a little bit sad and harsh. Over time, when the kid loses the "little kid" vibe, more is expected of them. If they can't deliver, they often blame the world and become bitter. Be a musician. Not just a guitarist.

 

 

 

Amen.

 

I've got 5 students right now who are in the 12-14 age range who are gigging in bands at bars, and I have even taken one on the road with me to some large festivals. They all got really good at a "narrow skill set" quite young, and now all of them, with the possible exception of one, don't seem very motivated to practice anything anymore.

 

Why should they be? In their world, they're getting doted over by parents, friends, local press, and other adults. And without much current effort, their egos are getting fed on a constant basis.

 

I'm fearing that the outcome for several of them may be just what you predict Jon.

 

It's going to be a good challenge for my teaching skills.

[jonfinn]

Amen. I've got 5 students right now who are in the 12-14 age range who are gigging in bands at bars, and I have even taken one on the road with me to some large festivals. They all got really good at "narrow skill set" quite young, and now all of them, with the possible exception of one, don't seem very motivated to practice anything anymore. Why should they be? In their world, they're getting doted over by parents, friends, local press, and other adults. And without much current effort, their egos are getting fed on a constant basis. I'm fearing that the outcome for several of them may be just what you predict Jon. It's going to be a good challenge for my teaching skills.

 

 

Cool!!! It took me a long time to learn to see it that way. I'm not even sure it's a bad thing. I try to go back the "If it's not hurting anyone, there's no problem" mindset rather than worry too much about what the student should/shouldn't know.

 

If they're not ready because their egos are being fed, no energy I spend will change their minds. If they start asking, it usually means they're ready. Everybody's different.

 

At the end of the day, my biggest responsibility as a teacher is to grow as a musician as much as possible. If the sound my instrument makes is inspiring, they'll be more curious about how I do it.

[-MBro-]

I thought they were coming out with guitar skills in a pill form... You mean I can't just "get good" without actually practicing and playing music over an extended period of time? I'm gonna go learn to play Golf, then. My favorite question is when people call the studio for lessons and ask "how many lessons will it take before I'm good?"

With a little bit of talent and allot of practice a student can learn the basics in about a year.

[-MBro-]

One hour of performance is like a thousand hours of practice.

+1
We grow as musicians incredibly once we begin to perform. However performance cannot replace practice time. This is because performing doesn't offer the same benefits as personal practice and vice-versa.

[Mark Wein]

With a little bit of talent and allot of practice a student can learn the basics in about a year.

 

Those are variables that I can't ascertain over the phone though....

[-MBro-]

This only a generalized answer I give to parents that ask about this.

[jonPhillips]

...Then, occasionally I'll remember that there was a time when just fingering a basic barre chord was an impossibility for me. Even back a few years ago when I first got back into playing, the whole notion of being a "lead" player was something I'd never have contemplated for myself...

 

 

Monitor your progress. It's easy to do. Record yourself playing something you find challenging. Could be anything from an F Barre chord to a piece by Paganini. Go away and practice it for a week. Record yourself playing it again. Compare the two recordings. Rinse and repeat.

 

I can almost guarantee that if you're using your practise time effectively, you *will* notice a significant improvement over time. If you don't record yourself, you'll find it hard to spot the gradual improvement in your playing.

[HALSAM00]

 

I think the phenomenon of 12-year-old-eruption-playing-prodigy can be really misleading. They're certainly out there. It's very impressive to hear a kid playing his/her butt off after only playing for 6 months. If you talk with many of them, they'll kinda tell you "they've got it down." A kid like that will often get lots of attention over a very narrow skill set. But because they're rarely faced with a situation where they have to function outside their comfort zone, they often don't even know it exists. I've met many "14-somethings" that can shred their banannas off but have absolutely no clue how to keep time, maintain song form, identify keys (i.e. basic musicianship skills). It's really common, and a little bit sad and harsh. Over time, when the kid loses the "little kid" vibe, more is expected of them. If they can't deliver, they often blame the world and become bitter. Be a musician. Not just a guitarist.

 

 

This describes me in my teens (25 yrs ago) I could play the {censored} outta alot of 80's metal but couldn't play any major chords

[tinear]

 

With a little bit of talent and allot of practice a student can learn the basics in about a year.

 

 

The basics being?

[Tokihatsu]

I've been practicing how to play Decieved by Trivium and I still can't catch every note by ear, How can I fix this?

[soapbladder]

I am beginning to like this forum over the others. I got my first guitar for my 16th birthday a Aria pro II stray cat and a peavey special 130 amp. I took lessons for a couple months my teacher would have me bring in a cass. tape of a song I wanted to learn he would listen and tab it out for me. I practiced on and off for the next couple of years, I even bought a Jackson Model 6 (which I later traded for a 16ft alum. boat with trailer:facepalm:) Man I would love to have that back!. Then I took off about 15 yrs.... I am now 38 I still have my Aria Pro II and have been practicing 4 or 5 times a week I even bought a XV-500(love it) anyway I have learnt more in the past year because of this site then I ever did in my teens. I set up a schedule to practice by and stick to it. If I have a question it can be answered here. It seems every week or so I discover something new or something clicks and it make me wanna learn some more. I am by no means a good guitarist BUT I am understanding more and things are coming easier. Thanks to all that have helped me.

Man we must have had the same freaking teacher. What a rip that was. Dude didn't even listen to me play the stuff after he transcribed it. But he did have a real sweet mullet.

SB

[gayforjesus]

i think this thread is misleading. there are many things you can do (or teach someone to do) that will greatly speed up your ability to do something.
we're probably all aware of the study that says that it takes 10,000 hours to be a world class concert violinist, and that may be true, but it shouldn't take 10,000 hours to get to the point on a guitar that you are having fun and not just mechanically following a set of instructions, and most people aren't planning to try out for first stratocaster for the london philharmonic, anyway.
i think that's what people want, is to get to the level that they are able to enjoy the process, and aren't just straining to get to the next level of a steep learning curve.

[RedYagiDY]

i think this thread is misleading. there are many things you can do (or teach someone to do) that will greatly speed up your ability to do something. we're probably all aware of the study that says that it takes 10,000 hours to be a world class concert violinist, and that may be true, but it shouldn't take 10,000 hours to get to the point on a guitar that you are having fun and not just mechanically following a set of instructions, and most people aren't planning to try out for first stratocaster for the london philharmonic, anyway. i think that's what people want, is to get to the level that they are able to enjoy the process, and aren't just straining to get to the next level of a steep learning curve.

 

 

Whats misleading is the idea that you will someday feel like you ARN'T a noob on the guitar. I remember first starting the guitar and seeing just how hard the path would be, that was several years ago. Now I'm in a regularly gigging bar band and I am ruteenly appaluded for my playing, but inside I still feel the same way about my playing as I did on day one, I just know more songs now. I think if you ever reach a point where you feel like you just KNOW how to do it, then somthing is wrong.

[Birdy]

Speaking for myself (since I asked the questions about chord changes), I have no illusions about how long it takes and I do view it as a lifetime process and a fun experience. In fact, I bought Mark's book and have enjoyed his videos he has been kind enough to post here. I think, for myself, the most "shocking" thing, to put it in a newbie's term, is when I go to my lesson and I see a young person (12-15) playing like a maniac, and I ask him how long he's been taking lessons, and he will say "six months," and another will say "a year." And they are not BSing. That is what makes me (and probably others like me) wonder "what the heck am I doing wrong?" For me, it is not frustrating, because I am not in a hurry. But it is a wake up call about the benefits of talent and aptitude, and the disadvantage of starting later in life. Like a new golfer though, hitting a good shot during a horrible round is what keeps you coming back--getting one bar right in a miserably played exercise will do the same for me. So, I think that puts things in perspective. BTW, don't diss the newbies--we're some of the ones buying lesson books and guitars and amps and other stuff from you veterans here.

 

 

You got that right. I remember waiting for my lesson and hearing the kid in front of me trying to cop some scorching Eric Clapton licks. then the lesson ended and I realized that "Eric Clapton" was a 14 year old girl.....

 

Still, I think it odd that there is no one predominate method of teaching guitar. Not even a half dozen. In the nature of things you would think that teachers would start to coalesce around two or three proven methods.

 

I'm not so sure that learning early is that big of an advantage. I went to see Susan Tedeschi last night. She learned to play as an adult. As always, her show is a scorcher. I've seen her act 4 times now, and each time, she has improved as a guitarist. I'd say that now, to a casual observer, it would be impossible to know if she was a guitarist who learned to sing, or vice versa.

 

She's a Berklee trained singer, so basic musicianship is there, but perhaps more importantly, consistency and practice (and having Derek Trucks at hand for pointers now and again).

[abombz]

I am a newbie playing only about 30+ hours so take what I say for what it is worth.

One thing I heard a while back that really stuck with me is that kids need to be held to a higher standard in order to perform to a higher standard. So when you have a child prodigy that can really play the pants off of a guitar but doesnt understand the fundamentals of music, challenge them to understand. They may resist at first but if you continue to hold them accountable it will eventually click and you may have the next star on your hands. The road may be long and exhausting but it will be rewarding to both you and your student. However, make sure you have the parents on board which will bring your convincing skills into play.

BTW, none of what I said had any basis in music before I read these posts and posted it here. It can be universally applied though.

[jeremy_green]

To me it all comes down to making music. Players who understand that idea deeply - get it. It isnt a guitar thing it is a MAKING MUSIC thing. If you always strive to do that - and only that - you will likely sound good. Regardless of years spent.

 

Be a musician - not a guitarist.