Members jeremy_green Posted March 18, 2009 Members Share Posted March 18, 2009 True that there might be slight physical differences in peoples potential top speed. But most folks never reach their potential due to lack of effort. That is, it's not their innate talent level stopping them from attaining the high speed they think they want. 100% agreed How fast is fast enough to make music? What is this "impressive guitarist" threshold number? I used to think Randy Rhoads was fast ... I guess he would be pretty average now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halfwhole Posted March 18, 2009 Members Share Posted March 18, 2009 people can't play fast because they can't hear fast. end of story. if your fingers are moving faster than your inner ear, then you're failing at playing music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretboardStud Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 The facts:Practice on average 3 times per week There's your problem and I'm willing to bet 5 horny virgins and your choice of a custom amp and guitar that you defenitely play video games ALOT more than 3 times per week. It's obvious where your priorities are so don't complain man. I know it's the new age and millenium and all that but many, many years ago our elders used to instill and teach us this thing that basically meant..hard work equals success and you have to know what your priorities are and put the most important ones first. That anything in life worth owning or having takes hard work, athletics, academics, art etc, etc. It's not easy and it's not supposed to be or else guys like you would be shredding like the jamaican dude that probably sleeps with his guitar and screws it too..that wouldn't be fair would it? Rule of thumb is if you work very hard and practice DAILY perhaps a few days off here and there when you over do it and you stick with it, in 7-10 years you should accomplish your speed goals with the guitar. At your current rate of 3 times per week..dissect your own statements and you'll have the answer (15 years playing, stalemate) you'll never shred. Like someone already pointed out you have to be HONEST with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonPhillips Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 ^^^ Harsh but fair ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members [Animals2] Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 Not to go against the guy/girl who said your either talented or not, BUT it has very little/nothing to do with natural talent. It is ALL about the number of hours you spend playing the instrument. There was a study done on 20 year old violinists, in which their skill was judged by conservatory teachers. The best violinists out of the group had all averaged about 10,000 hours of proper practice. The second best violinists had all averaged 7,500 hours of proper practice. The third best violinists had all averaged 5,000 hours of proper practice. Just to really beat this into your head, there was not a single student who had practiced a total of 5,000 hours that was as good as the students that had racked up 10,000 hours. So talent does not make up for those big gaps in practice time accumulated. That was paraphrased from someone else, but when I first read this study I remember they mentioned that students who were initially "more talented" were surpassed in ability by students who had practiced for a longer period of time. For whatever reason 10,000 hours of practice seems to be a magic number for mastery. Google 10,000 hour rule for more info Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasco Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 The book "This is Your Brain on Music" talks about the 10,000 rule. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretboardStud Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 ^^^ Harsh but fair ^^^ that's some of the issues in this world today..not enough "harsh" and everyone gets {censored}ing babied like some fragile, little homo flowers, creating disgustingly weak, pathetic, fragile, lazy people that have a ridiculous problem with sense of entittlement and..here goes.. INSTANT GRATIFICATION/SATISFACTION. This equals the original poster. Can't get my Yngwie Malmsteen talent in one year with only mediocre practicing so I'll bitch and moan and come get help in forums..yes, that's my agenda and something must be wrong if I spend 20 hrs. a week blasting on nintendo with good results but dammit...I can't shred after 14 years of lazy approach. Go {censored}ing figure! Parents PLEASE MAKE/FORCE your kids to {censored}ing do chores and earn what they want to have and teach them that NOTHING is easy and life is not fair. Everything takes hard work and hard work is GOOD for the soul and a strong character. It's not harsh is reality, I have nothing against the original poster but it's disgusting hearing this type of thing day in and day out. I really don't understand this type of low worth and pathetic reasoning and to think I risked my life on a {censored}ing raft to come here and work hard, give back and EARN all I have now. Wtf was I thinking..I should have come to a forum and asked for all of it! Save it, YES, I'm angry...no I don't have issues except for situations like these. It only lasts 5 min then I realize..{censored} them, it's their lives. Because we all KNOW what happens when you actually try to help someone or give them advice. It's amazing that I never read the book "Good advice should be accompanied by a blow job and a gift basket" being 90% of people not only read it but memorized it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretboardStud Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 That was paraphrased from someone else, but when I first read this study I remember they mentioned that students who were initially "more talented" were surpassed in ability by students who had practiced for a longer period of time. For whatever reason 10,000 hours of practice seems to be a magic number for mastery. Google 10,000 hour rule for more info Mac :thu: End of story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 that's some of the issues in this world today..not enough "harsh" and everyone gets {censored}ing babied like some fragile, little homo flowers, creating disgustingly weak, pathetic, fragile, lazy people that have a ridiculous problem with sense of entittlement and..here goes.. INSTANT GRATIFICATION/SATISFACTION. This equals the original poster. Can't get my Yngwie Malmsteen talent in one year with only mediocre practicing so I'll bitch and moan and come get help in forums..yes, that's my agenda and something must be wrong if I spend 20 hrs. a week blasting on nintendo with good results but dammit...I can't shred after 14 years of lazy approach. Go {censored}ing figure! Parents PLEASE MAKE/FORCE your kids to {censored}ing do chores and earn what they want to have and teach them that NOTHING is easy and life is not fair. Everything takes hard work and hard work is GOOD for the soul and a strong character. It's not harsh is reality, I have nothing against the original poster but it's disgusting hearing this type of thing day in and day out. I really don't understand this type of low worth and pathetic reasoning and to think I risked my life on a {censored}ing raft to come here and work hard, give back and EARN all I have now. Wtf was I thinking..I should have come to a forum and asked for all of it! Save it, YES, I'm angry...no I don't have issues except for situations like these. It only lasts 5 min then I realize..{censored} them, it's their lives. Because we all KNOW what happens when you actually try to help someone or give them advice. It's amazing that I never read the book "Good advice should be accompanied by a blow job and a gift basket" being 90% of people not only read it but memorized it. This is an awesome rant!!!! LMFAO!! Well done:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretboardStud Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is an awesome rant!!!! LMFAO!! Well done:thu: :poke: my gf always laughs when I go off but I really don't mean it in a bad way..man it's actually good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonPhillips Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is an awesome rant!!!! LMFAO!! Well done:thu: I agree, top quality ranting of the highest order :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmarsh Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hmmm... to me it sounded like vulgar, offensive, demeaning, immature and whiny RESPONSE, to the OP who came here asking a reasonable, if a bit naive, question. Certainly more "disgusting" than the original question posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 Harsh no doubt, likely unfair to the OP but the message is clear and I agree with it totally 2 words:Work Hard This could answer 90% of peoples problems - not just with guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 Also, I wouldn't recommend trying to use that time to increase speed, but rather use it to learn to play well. The speed you attain will be a nice by-product, and it will be usable in a musical way. This has been my experience as well, on the instruments I play regularly. Granted, the only times I have been required to play at a certain speed is when I was playing viola in community orchestra. The solution I found was very focused practice: 1. Identify problem section in music 2. Do 5 reps of problem section at slow metronome setting. 3. Repeat Step 2. and lower metronome setting until 5 reps can be done with no mistakes. If mistakes are made, metronome is not slow enough, set it even slower. If you find yourself making even more mistakes, take a break (and maybe some deep breaths to calm yourself). 4. Do 5 reps of measure before problem section, problem section itself, and measure after, together with metronome. Reason: I frequently find that even after I "fix" the problem section, I still make the same mistakes during transitions into and out of the problem section. 5. Make any mistakes in Step. 4? Turn metronome down and repeat Step 4. Mistakes piling up again? Take another break. I only did this when I had deadlines, usually established by orchestra scheduling. It's only recommended if you have an actual hard deadline. Otherwise, I think it takes too much time away from more beneficial music making practices - it's very tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 "There was a study..." I've heard the 10,000 hour study thing. I heard it many years ago applied to learning Karate forms or katas. Then it was repeating a form 10,000 times to attain mastery. We accept this idea/study as being fact. But is it? Or is it made up? How would you verify it? It sounds anecdotal to me. Anecdotal: (1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity: the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy or untrue. (2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yngtchie Blacksteen Posted March 19, 2009 Members Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is Shawn Lane at the age of 14. Fast forward to the solo starting at 2:25-ish. [YOUTUBE]rhYn5PFPWHI[/YOUTUBE] Sometimes it's not about how long you've played, because some people just have 'it'. Methinks it has a lot to do with attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members darkwaters Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 Speed is overrated. Learn to play with feeling and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasco Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 "There was a study..."I've heard the 10,000 hour study thing.I heard it many years ago applied to learning Karate forms or katas.Then it was repeating a form 10,000 times to attain mastery.We accept this idea/study as being fact. But is it? Or is it made up?How would you verify it? It sounds anecdotal to me.Anecdotal: (1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity: the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy or untrue.(2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion. Good questions Virg. Have you read the book I recommended above? I think you'd enjoy it regardless of whether or not you agreed with the authors conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Burninator Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 Did the study check how many practice hours the violinists with the lesser results had?How many violinists were there in the study?Was only one study done? The matter of is there initial talent is tricky - can you measure unfulfilled potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BydoEmpire Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 Here's the study:http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/nov/15/malcolm-gladwell-outliers-extract I've always believed in the "raw hours" theory - how many raw hours is your hand on the fretboard? Of course, you can use your time more efficiently or less efficiently, but it's the raw number of hours that makes the biggest difference. I think a big part of talent is having such a love of the instrument that you want to devote 10 hours a day to practicing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 people can't play fast because they can't hear fast. end of story. if your fingers are moving faster than your inner ear, then you're failing at playing music. That's certainly my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 Awesome. Shawn Lane says on a video/interview that he had all his skills by 16. A prodigy. Did not take 10,000 hours. Check this link out. This guy is trying it out: "10,000 hours to become a virtuoso? I'm gonna find out." http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2275008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Li Shenron Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 Shawn Lane says on a video/interview that he had all his skills by 16.A prodigy. Did not take 10,000 hours. Well, we can't be sure... According to the bio in his website, he started playing guitar at 10 years old. 6 years is more than 2000 days, "only" 5 hours per day and you get 10,000 total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted March 20, 2009 Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 I think conservatory scrutiny would have placed him in a remedial sub group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RedBarchetta Posted March 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 20, 2009 There's your problem and I'm willing to bet 5 horny virgins and your choice of a custom amp and guitar that you defenitely play video games ALOT more than 3 times per week. It's obvious where your priorities are so don't complain man. I know it's the new age and millenium and all that but many, many years ago our elders used to instill and teach us this thing that basically meant..hard work equals success and you have to know what your priorities are and put the most important ones first. That anything in life worth owning or having takes hard work, athletics, academics, art etc, etc. It's not easy and it's not supposed to be or else guys like you would be shredding like the jamaican dude that probably sleeps with his guitar and screws it too..that wouldn't be fair would it? Rule of thumb is if you work very hard and practice DAILY perhaps a few days off here and there when you over do it and you stick with it, in 7-10 years you should accomplish your speed goals with the guitar. At your current rate of 3 times per week..dissect your own statements and you'll have the answer (15 years playing, stalemate) you'll never shred. Like someone already pointed out you have to be HONEST with yourself. To get the record straight...the last time I played ANY video game was over 10 years ago. I am married with a 2 year old baby and a full-time job. So, as it is, if I get an hour per day to myself for ANYTHING, I am fortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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