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major scale positions


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'Ello again. I've been inspired to learn the major scale (Blame Alex Lifeson!). In all it's positions. The problem is I've never really learned all the positions of a scale before.

 

I do know the first and second positions of minor pentatonic scale, however and I understand how to shift over from the first position to the second (well, there is no proper 'way' but once you hit the 6th degree or octave you can shift into the second position and you'll be playing the same notes in the first position but the last note will be that higher octave third degree) but I'm completely lost with the major scale and their positions. I looked under mike dodge's stuff and I was wondering if there was any advice or scale charts you could give me?

 

Like, where do I shift? I feel really dumb or something. More like blonde. :facepalm:

 

(plus major scale is the key to chords, all the modes, progressions, pretty important, eh?)

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idk, years ago, started out with "Diatonic Major and Minor Scales by Andres Segovia", then progressed to filling in the remaining notes for each box position...then on to just shifting from position to position, then doing the more 3nps jazz box positions. In retrospect it really helped me with laying down a foundation for using all four fingers (generally 1 finger per fret, except the index to middle finger covers 2 fret span) and shifting. Otherwise, its pretty simple, just learn each position then start shifting but be mindful of the efficient fingering.

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These are the scale forms I was first taught. They are from Wm Leavitt's "Modern Method For Guitar" series of method books. This particular fretboard map is for the key of F major, but all the forms are of course moveable and applicable to every major scale. (and (dare I say?) all of the modes of the major scale)

 

cheers,

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These are the scale forms I was first taught. They are from Wm Leavitt's "Modern Method For Guitar" series of method books.


cheers,



Those are the ones I learnt :thu:

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Posted
Those are the ones I learnt
:thu:



Have your tried working on the various 2-octave arpeggio forms that derive from these patterns? They are quite the finger workout / hand development.

cheers,

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Posted

Have your tried working on the various 2-octave arpeggio forms that derive from these patterns? They are quite the finger workout / hand development.


cheers,

 

 

Yes, playing all the triads in a really good one as well....starting on the root of the first triad, say A C# E..then move to the 5th of the next one so F# D B (Bmin) and then C# E G#(C#min) then up to the 5th of the next one again, so A F# D (DMaj) etc, etc...all the way through all the positions..sits nicely under the fingers but really works them out!

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Posted

These are the scale forms I was first taught. They are from Wm Leavitt's "Modern Method For Guitar" series of method books. This particular fretboard map is for the key of F major, but all the forms are of course moveable and applicable to every major scale. (and (dare I say?) all of the modes of the major scale)


cheers,

 

 

these are cool!

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Posted
these are cool!



Now if I could only bring myself to understand Leavitt's logic for the other five forms. . . . thinking back to your story about "Why did you have me learn all 12? ;)

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Now if I could only bring myself to understand Leavitt's logic for the other five forms. . . . thinking back to your story about "Why did you have me learn all 12?
;)



it's about permutations. He worked out every single variant of his "in position" definition. Some of them are pretty off-the-wall!

They're in MMFG Vol III

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Like, where do I shift?


 

 

Once you know a couple patterns that are adjacent to each other on the neck, you can shift whereever you want.

 

One thing that helps, in addition to learning traditional scale patterns, is to learn and practice scale patterns up and down one string. Repeat this on all 5 other strings.

 

When practicing one-string playing, you are constantly shifting.

 

Do a lot of that, in conjunction with standard scales, and pretty soon you'll be travelling anywhere on the fretboard effortlessly.

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One thing that helps, in addition to learning traditional scale patterns, is to learn and practice scale patterns up and down one string. Repeat this on all 5 other strings.

 

 

Great advice.

 

I'm going to offer an alternative view to Jed (a little reluctantly, it has to be said as I have tremendous respect for his advice) : When I started learning the major scales, I learnt the five patterns of the C-A-G-E-D system.

 

This has some major benefits IMHO

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Another thing to do is to go beyond just running the scales up and down. Once you have the fingerings and positions down try theses exercises....

 

Play these patterns. 1231 2342 3453 etc. In other words play the first three notes in any position then the first note again and so on all the way up the position and back down. In G. Start with your middle finger:

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

----------------------------

----------------------------------2--------2--4

----2-----2-3---2-3-5-2-3-5----3--5---------5 etc.

3-5---3-5-----5-------------

 

 

Mix it up...push yourself.

 

And yes, once you get comfortable with scales and positions you can and will shift anywhere you like. You also want to be aware of the scale degrees as you learn the major scale positions. When have worked on this for a few years and know your scale degrees across the whole neck in many keys you will have a basis for ALL other scales and know the extended chord tones etc....

 

Then play it in intervals say 3rds... 13 24 35

 

--------------

--------------

--------------

------------------2----4 etc.

--2---3-2-5-3-----5

3---5---------

 

Then try sixths.....16 27 38 49.......all the way up and down.

 

 

------------

------------

--------------------2 etc

--2---4----5-

---------2------3

3---5-------

 

 

You can use any interval...... 4ths with a twist

 

--------------------

--------------------

------------4-------

----------2---3---5-

--3-5---2-------5---

3-----5-------------

 

 

These will all help with melodic ideas and finger independence

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Posted
I'm going to offer an alternative view to Jed (a little reluctantly, it has to be said as I have tremendous respect for his advice) : When I started learning the major scales, I learnt the five patterns of the C-A-G-E-D system.

Ouch !! Dude, we so have to talk, . . . i mean . . . C-A-G-E-D ??? :facepalm: C-A-G-E-D ??? :facepalm::cop::facepalm:

cheers, ;)

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Posted
These are the scale forms I was first taught. They are from Wm Leavitt's "Modern Method For Guitar" series of method books. This particular fretboard map is for the key of F major, but all the forms are of course moveable and applicable to every major scale. (and (dare I say?) all of the modes of the major scale)


cheers,



While this is good, it'll hamper you in the end. The reason is that you need to memorize the fretboard, and those scales that he has on there can help...

IF you put in the notes where he has fret numbers, and SAY THEM WHEN YOU PLAY THEM. Seriously, this is the most important thing you can do when learning scales. Stop thinking tablature (cheating) and start thinking in the notes that you're playing. The forms are important, but knowing the notes is even more so.

This helps in both learning the fretboard (a MUST for any good player) and also helps you memorize which scales have what notes, flats and sharps.

Seriously, it's the best thing you can do to help you progress. 3-note scales and saying them out loud so that you memorize them. Try it. It should take you about 3-4 months to memorize them all in every key, but by then you'll have the entire fretboard memorized and you'll be VERY glad you did. :thu:

I would also suggest looking at buying "Learn & Master Guitar". Best instruction I ever purchased (and I have at least 25 instruction ooks in my house).

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Posted

 

While this is good, it'll hamper you in the end. The reason is that you need to memorize the fretboard, and those scales that he has on there can help...


IF you put in the notes where he has fret numbers, and SAY THEM WHEN YOU PLAY THEM. Seriously, this is the most important thing you can do when learning scales. Stop thinking tablature (cheating) and start thinking in the notes that you're playing. The forms are important, but knowing the notes is even more so.

 

 

The numbers in my scale forms are not fret locations - they are scale degrees. In this case numbers are used rather than note names so that the reader can apply these forms to any key. Alternatively, one could generate the same forms in any particular key or all keys but creating charts and such is a poor substitute for actually learning the scales.

 

I agree scales should be practiced as sequences of notes, so saying the note names as you go is a great way to start learning the fretboard. Personally, I think scales are not the best way to learn the fretboard - too many notes, to many fingering variations - the mind can't keep it all straight.

 

For learning the fretboard, I found 2-octave triad triad arpeggios to be a much more effective tool (and later adding the other notes of the pentatonic scales for each chord root and type). Part of learning the 2-octave arpeggios for every chord in every key is internalizing the chord spellings - an even more important skill than memorizing all the keys IMO (note that it's nearly impossible to learn one (all chord spellings for instance) without knowing the other (all the key spellings). At any rate - nothing beats saying the note names and singing the pitches as you practice these things.

 

cheers,

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Posted

Ahh, yeah I see that now, only glanced at it before. That's pretty nice to know, but I'd still rather use the note names. Helps to both say them and see them at the same time.

Me, I printed out 7 different fretboards and pinned them up in my practice area. Makes it easy to see and say at the same time imo.

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Posted

Learn the modes of the major scale and you'll know the major scale across the entire fretboard. Easier said then done, I know.

 

If we focus on the root notes of each mode, in sequence, on the low E string, each mode should be rooted around the intervals of the major scale.

 

For example - C major...

 

mode-map.jpg

 

Look at the low E string root notes (marked in red). Those root notes are separated by the same intervals as the major scale, with the Ionian root marking the C major scale root. If you played E Phrygian (12th fret and open root on low E string) in a C major key, it would be played in the context of C major. Same if you played G Mixolydian. It's all connected.

 

That's a pretty basic coverage there, but once you get your "foot in the door" with this stuff, you should instinctively know where you need to go from there as far as learning where the tones of the major scale lie (e.g. 3rd, 5th, 6th etc.)

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Posted

For learning the fretboard, I found 2-octave triad triad arpeggios to be a much more effective tool
(and later adding the other notes of the pentatonic scales for each chord root and type). Part of learning the 2-octave arpeggios for every chord in every key is internalizing the chord spellings - an even more important skill than memorizing all the keys IMO (note that it's nearly impossible to learn one (all chord spellings for instance) without knowing the other (all the key spellings).
At any rate - nothing beats saying the note names and singing the pitches as you practice these things.


cheers,

 

 

I agree with all of the above.

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Posted

Learn the modes of the major scale and you'll know the major scale across the entire fretboard. Easier said then done, I know.

 

 

As has been pointed out many times by many different people:

those are not modes - those are scale forms.

 

Every key and any mode of any key can be played in any position of the fretboard. It is misleading to think of fingering patterns as one of the modes, since every major scale fingering pattern can be used to play and play over any or all of the modes. Just because the lowest note of any particular major scale fingering pattern is some note other than the tonic - does not make that major scale fingering pattern a modal fingering pattern.

 

cheers,

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Posted

(plus major scale is the key to chords, all the modes, progressions, pretty important, eh?)

 

 

The major scale is, quite literally, the backbone of Music Theory. An indepth understanding of the major scale makes understanding everything so, so much easier. So yeah, I'd say it's kind of important.

 

cheers,

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Posted

Great thread. Can someone post all possible 3 note per string scales including fingerings?

 

Here's the 12 positions ala Leavitt with solfege syllables. These are the same as the ones Jed listed, but the fingerings are explicitly stated. As far as I know, these 12 positions are comprehensive.

 

I find it useful to simultaneously know the solfege syllable (synonymous with scale degree or note function within a key) and the name of the note for any given key.

 

 

Tonic Mode

do Ionian

re Dorian

mi Phrygian

fa Lydian

so Mixolydian

la Aeolian

ti Locrian

 

 

 

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|-------|

-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|

-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

Fingering (starting on the 6th string, 1=index, 2=middle, 3=ring, 4=pinkie):

134,234,234,24,134,134

 

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

-------|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|

-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|

-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

124,124,124,134,24,124

 

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

134,134,134,23,134,134

 

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

-------|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

124,124,124,124,23,124

 

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

134,134,134,13,124,124

 

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

-------|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

123,123,124,124,13,123

 

--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|

-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|-------|

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|

--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|

124,124,134,134,24,124

 

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|-------|

-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

134,134,234,23,134,134

 

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

-------|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|

-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

124,124,124,124,24,124

 

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

134,134,134,13,134,134

 

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

-------|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

123,124,124,124,23,123

 

--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|

--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|-------|-------|

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|

--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|

124,134,134,13,124,124

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