Members gschmittling Posted March 25, 2009 Members Posted March 25, 2009 I went to an open real book jam last night, and was absolutely blown away at how awesome the band was. I was going to sit in, but I was half intimated half just wanted to enjoy it. Next week I'm sitting in. While watching the other guitar player, he's using a lot of really great comping chords that I didn't recognize. I know my jazz chords well along with all their inversions (maj7, m7, dim7, and dom7) along with some root position 11, m11, 13 and some altered 7th chords as well. What are some other techniques to great chord comping? Which chords are good substitutes?
Members halfwhole Posted March 25, 2009 Members Posted March 25, 2009 do you know your drop 2 voicings? take those and replace the root with a 9!
Poparad Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 What are some other techniques to great chord comping? Which chords are good substitutes? Here are three ideas that will eventually all lead to the same chords: 1) Take the voicings you already know and try moving some of the voices up or down a note in the scale. If the note is the 5th of the chord, move it up to the 13th or down to the 11th (though be careful on chords other than minor with the 11th) 2) Subs from the 3rd work well, and are a great way to get more uses for the voicings you already know. A Dm7 chord is spelled D-F-A-C, and all the voicings you know for that probably use just those notes. Dm9 is spelled D-F-A-C-E, but rather than try and fit in an extra 5th note, just drop out another one, such as D (which in a band setting won't be missed because that's what the bass player is providing). The remaining notes are F-A-C-E, or Fmaj7. So Fmaj7 is a sub for a fuller Dm9. This works for any kind of chord, but of course the qualities (min7, maj7, etc) differ from chord to chord. 3) Learn the voicings you know on different strings. If you know your drop2 voicings on strings 2-4 (which are really common voicings, and probably some of the ones you've already learned), learn them on strings 1-4 or strings 3-6. Also, don't be afraid to use partial voicings, Try just playing the top three notes on a chord. This frees up your fingers a bit to move some of the notes around and create melodies with the top notes of the voicings.
Members jonfinn Posted March 25, 2009 Members Posted March 25, 2009 I went to an open real book jam last night, and was absolutely blown away at how awesome the band was. I was going to sit in, but I was half intimated half just wanted to enjoy it. Next week I'm sitting in. While watching the other guitar player, he's using a lot of really great comping chords that I didn't recognize. I know my jazz chords well along with all their inversions (maj7, m7, dim7, and dom7) along with some root position 11, m11, 13 and some altered 7th chords as well. What are some other techniques to great chord comping? Which chords are good substitutes? In the beginning, this worked better than anything else I tried. 1) Learn one song all the way through. Be able to play the chords, melody and be able to improvise over just that one tune. Nothing else. 2) when you show up, play just that one tune for now. Nothing else. If they ask, say no. When you really really know that one tune, learn another one. Pretty soon, you'll develop all those chords you're asking about as a natural consequence of learning the tunes. And you'll get complimented because you sound good (because you actually know the tune... you'd be surprised how many people skip that step)! Food for thought!
Members gennation Posted March 25, 2009 Members Posted March 25, 2009 Do yourself a favor and work through the Blues to Jazz link and then the Swing Chords link here: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3573/lessons.html This will get you up to speed and help with the comprehension of grabbing these chords on the fly. It's a great site. Then go here: http://guitarplayertv.com/?channel=anatomy&videofile= and work through the "Blues Rx" lessons. Mimi Fox shows you all that nice chording...but use that first link first because you'll need that as background to get through Mimi's stuff.
Members gschmittling Posted March 26, 2009 Author Members Posted March 26, 2009 i can sit in the jam no problems, and while i'm not an amazing jazz improviser by any means i can hold my own. but some of his voicings were beyond me, i know my drop 2 voicings, all three sets. i'm just looking for different ways to approach it. could you drop off the root and fifth and add the 9 and 6 so it'd be 3-7-9-13(6) and work through those different inversions? gennation - great stuff. i always just called those block chords. i use 'em on the E A and D strings. i play a lot of the big band swing stuff where those work great.
Poparad Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 could you drop off the root and fifth and add the 9 and 6 so it'd be 3-7-9-13(6) and work through those different inversions? Yep. That's what I was getting at in one of the points in my post. The one thing to be careful about though is putting upper extensions on the bottom of the voicing when you're in a lower register (pretty much the 5th and 6th strings). Up higher, like on the 4th string, it usually works out OK.
Moderators Jed Posted March 27, 2009 Moderators Posted March 27, 2009 i can sit in the jam no problems, and while i'm not an amazing jazz improviser by any means i can hold my own. but some of his voicings were beyond me, i know my drop 2 voicings, all three sets. i'm just looking for different ways to approach it. could you drop off the root and fifth and add the 9 and 6 so it'd be 3-7-9-13(6) and work through those different inversions? When you take a: maj7 - change the root to a 9th, you get a min7 built on the 3rd (of the original maj7th chord). If you then take the 5th and change to a 6th, you'll get the min7sus4 built on the 3rd (of the original maj7 chord. The old 5th becomes the new b3rd) dom7 - change the root to a 9th, you get a min7b5 built on the 3rd (of the original dom7th chord). If you then take the 5th and change to a 6th, you'll get the min7b5sus4 built on the 3rd (of the original dom7 chord, the old 5th becomes the new b3rd) min7 - change the root to a 9th, you get a maj7 built on the b3rd (of the original min7th chord). If you then take the 5th and change to a 6th, you'll get a maj7#11 no 3rd voicing built on the b3rd (of the original min7 chord, the old 5th becomes the new 3rd) A better way to see the various chord substitutions might be to look at the chord scales for each chord function, cross out the avoid notes and see what chords you can make of what's left. If you have a list of the diatonic chords for that key, you can also cross out any chord that includes the avoid notes for that chord scale to get to the same list of substitutions. classic (unaltered) extensions (for diatonic harmony) are:Maj chords - 9ths & 6ths (and 7th or b7th depending on function)Min chords - b7ths and 11ths (and 9ths depending on function)Dim chords - b7 and b13ths Alternatively, if you internalize your chord spellings and chord scales, you'll start to see all sorts of chord substitutions. Don't forget to look for chords in 4ths
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