Okay, what's THE excercise for building ridiculous shredder-style picking speed?

[Knottyhed]

 

It shouldn't be. If it is then something's wrong.

 

 

Bingo!

 

If you want to go fast, why'd you use a different technique to the one that allows you pick the fastest? If you can't actually play guitar using the technique that allows you pick the fastest, then that's what you need to practice.

 

Just to reiterate, by tremolo I mean a repeated, rapid repetition of the same note - in terms of picking this would mean rapidly alternate picking the same note. Also vary the strength of your picking/volume to get a feel for how the string reacts. What I am saying is take the left hand out of the mental process, play one note, find the technique with which you can play fastest, use that technique when practicing.

[Krank]

 

Bingo! If you want to go fast, why'd you use a different technique to the one that allows you pick the fastest? If you can't actually play guitar using the technique that allows you pick the fastest, then that's what you need to practice.

 

 

Two different objectives: picking as fast as you can on a single string vs. precision picking across strings.

[Jasco]

 

Two different objectives: picking as fast as you can on a single string vs. precision picking across strings.

 

 

Adding string crossings shouldn't change the picking technique you're using if you are doing strict alternation.

[Krank]

 

Adding string crossings shouldn't change the picking technique you're using if you are doing strict alternation.

 

 

There is a TON of players who do it this way. I'll venture and say it's the classic definition of 'tremolo' picking as opposed to just 'fast' picking. Which is why I don't get his reply.

 

Single string, few notes - elbow movement. Fastest.

Several strings, many individual notes - wrist movement. Fast.

[Jasco]

I do realize a lot of people do it that way. That doesn't mean it's the most effective method. But there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak.

 

Here's a good read for you about picking technique:

 

www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-finger_tech.html

[Krank]

I do realize a lot of people do it that way. That doesn't mean it's the most effective method. But there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak. Here's a good read for you about picking technique: www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-finger_tech.html

 

I know the link.

 

Go back and read his original post - says start out by tremolo picking as fast as you can, then slow down. I'm saying to me and and hell of a lot of others, including most big names throughout the decades, such an approach can't work for fast scale runs as it's an ergonomically different technique.

 

I'm out, this is a waste of time.

 

Thank you anyway for contributing.

[Jasco]

Here's a clip of a guy playing doing tremolo picking at about 2:05 who is still picking from wrist rotation instead of elbow, for an example:

 

[YOUTUBE]WI5P9REpiPM[/YOUTUBE]

[Krank]

 

Here's a clip of a guy playing doing tremolo picking at about 2:05 who is still picking from wrist rotation instead of elbow, for an example:

 

 

Great clip, I like his playing - too bad about the clipped mic or whatever causes the distortion. But seems to me he uses a tehnique with BOTH wrist and forearm movement at that point.

[johnkline]

What speeds are "shredders" usually able to do bpm wise comfortably for

1/8th note triplets and 1/16 note triplets? I'm curious what most faster players practice at who are already fast.

 

I'm pretty much stuck at 70 bpm for 1/16th note triplets, and 130ish for 1/8 note triplets. I'd like to get just fast enough to learn, oh some Buckethead type shred burst runs but they're beyond my ability for now...

[girevik]

Buckethead's teacher, Pebber Brown, has a bunch of Youtube videos, eg. the Picking Concepts series, how to Sweep, etc.

[Krank]

 

What speeds are "shredders" usually able to do bpm wise comfortably for 1/8th note triplets and 1/16 note triplets? I'm curious what most faster players practice at who are already fast. I'm pretty much stuck at 70 bpm for 1/16th note triplets, and 130ish for 1/8 note triplets. I'd like to get just fast enough to learn, oh some Buckethead type shred burst runs but they're beyond my ability for now...

 

 

I think I saw Petrucci do straight 16th notes at 216bpm or somewhere around that number. Ludicrous! Anything above 160bpm is sooper fast to me.

[Krank]

Buckethead's teacher, Pebber Brown, has a bunch of Youtube videos, eg. the Picking Concepts series, how to Sweep, etc.

 

Must be this guy:

 

[YOUTUBE]52g-18STc0w[/YOUTUBE]

 

At first I liked how he doesn't seem to give a {censored} how he looks. Then he starts playing, and his tone is awful.

[girevik]

At first I liked how he doesn't seem to give a {censored} how he looks. Then he starts playing, and his tone is awful.

 

That is not the video where he explains in detail how he picks, but yeah, it is the same guy.

[jonPhillips]

Then he starts playing, and his tone is awful.

 

No

[The Burninator]

The video's are linked in the "why can't I develop speed?" thread.

He wasn't Buckethead's only teacher, and from what I remember

(from watching videos on youtube) Buckethead's picking technique

looks more like one of his other teachers' - Paul Gilbert.

[girevik]

 

The video's are linked in the "why can't I develop speed?" thread. He wasn't Buckethead's only teacher, and from what I remember (from watching videos on youtube) Buckethead's picking technique looks more like one of his other teachers' - Paul Gilbert.

 

 

Interesting... He says it took him 8 years to develop fast picking speed.

 

Also interesting how he took it for granted he'd never play as fast as his heros and that he just wanted to be a good rhythm guitarist.

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[Knottyhed]

I know the link. Go back and read his original post - says start out by tremolo picking as fast as you can, then slow down. I'm saying to me and and hell of a lot of others, including most big names throughout the decades, such an approach can't work for fast scale runs as it's an ergonomically different technique. I'm out, this is a waste of time. Thank you anyway for contributing.

 

Clearly you're such an expert you should be giving the advice.

[Orbit]

 

There is a TON of players who do it this way. I'll venture and say it's the classic definition of 'tremolo' picking as opposed to just 'fast' picking. Which is why I don't get his reply. Single string, few notes - elbow movement. Fastest. Several strings, many individual notes - wrist movement. Fast.

 

 

Wrong.

[Krank]

Okay, please explain how I'm wrong. EVH comes to mind, not that I'm a fan.

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

Well, if you're referring to the 'trick' of vibrating your forearm while picking single strings, that does indeed create the most extreme velocities for most players, but it rarely allows for quick shifts from string to string, especially not if you're gonna pick accurately.

 

Michael Angelo Batio has stated in his videos that you should practice the same picking method slow as you do fast. I'm guessing that he means that you shouldn't shift your picking style when you intend to speed things up, like so many players do. I usually advise against shifting to elbow motion when you're doing your fastest licks, for example.

[Knottyhed]

 

Okay, please explain how I'm wrong. EVH comes to mind, not that I'm a fan.

 

 

EVH is mostly a legato player dude. He does tremolo picking on single strings - granted, but he's not using a separate technique. As brilliant a player as he is, he's also not particularly fast in the world of shred.

 

'Tremolo' is just a musical term. It can apply to any instrument. It's used to describe a rapid ocillation of a single note. Picking - well, that's just picking. Ergo - 'tremolo picking' is just rapidly picking the same note...

 

That aside, the mechanics of picking a string fast is the same no matter what your left hand is doing. If you just hold a single string you don't have to worry about the left hand. So you can concentrate on the right hand. If you sit there and work out a technique that allows you to pick very rapidly with the right hand you're half way there.

 

Obviously once you start moving those fingers around on the left hand your brain has allot more to do, and until you build those motor skills you will not be able to pick at the same rate.

 

So, the obvious thing to do is take that fast picking technique and slow it down until you can co-ordinate right and left hands.

 

The trick is to keep the movements small and efficient and build up speed using the technique that you've already figured out will allow you to go fast.

 

Crossing strings isn't an issue - just move to the next string using the same technique.

 

Here's a tremolo picking exercise from Troy Stetina's Speed Mechanics:

-15-0-0-0-14-0-0-0-12-0-0-0-10-0-0-0-8-0-0-0-7-0-0-0-5-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-

 

The exercise is 16th notes (obviously). Play it on each string as they react differently, use a metronome.

 

You can change it up and play half-notes, triplets or quintuplets etc. It's a good exercise because it works on your timing, picking and gives your left hand something to do, but not so much to do it'll throw you off. Plus it's a tiny bit musical.

 

For crossing strings I'd just suggest practicing scales to be honest.

[Knottyhed]

 

Single string, few notes - elbow movement. Fastest. Several strings, many individual notes - wrist movement. Fast.

 

 

I don't where you got this idea from?

 

Personally I can't pick at any speed at all using *just* elbow movement. My elbow only comes into it when I change strings! Maybe it works for you, in which case, where is the logic in using a different technique when moving from one string to another?

[Knottyhed]

 

Well, if you're referring to the 'trick' of vibrating your forearm while picking single strings, that does indeed create the most extreme velocities for most players, but it rarely allows for quick shifts from string to string, especially not if you're gonna pick accurately. Michael Angelo Batio has stated in his videos that you should practice the same picking method slow as you do fast. I'm guessing that he means that you shouldn't shift your picking style when you intend to speed things up, like so many players do. I usually advise against shifting to elbow motion when you're doing your fastest licks, for example

 

 

 

Officially worlds fastest. Is this what you mean? The movements are so fine it's hard to see where the motion is coming from, but it sure as hell isn't the elbow joint except when changing strings. His forearm is vibrating, but that'd produce motion in the wrist... it's essentially the same thing I do, only I can't do it at over 300bpm!!!

 

Yup, using the same technique for fast and slow playing - MAB does say exactly that, but he means use the technique you use for going fast when playing slow - and work on it until it's accuarate and under control, Troy Stetina and Guthrie Govan say much the same thing. It's a no-brainer when you think about it. You can play slow using all up strokes with your pinkie if you want, but you're never going to pick fast just by practicing that technique with a metronome.

 

That said, I don't think MAB is entirely right, because (practicing for speed aside) I think when playing slow it's fine to alter technique to add dynamics to your playing. Digging the pick in, changing it's angle etc. etc.

[Krank]

 

I don't where you got this idea from? Personally I can't pick at any speed at all using *just* elbow movement. My elbow only comes into it when I change strings! Maybe it works for you, in which case, where is the logic in using a different technique when moving from one string to another?

 

 

I'm not sure I even know what we're arguing anymore. I don't think we disagree on the essentials. You said to start with 'tremolo picking as fast as you can', and I've always understood tremolo picking to be a seperate technique from the wrist technique. Turns out that's not the sense in which you meant it. That's fine with me.

[Li Shenron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynUZOJc8QI Officially worlds fastest. Is this what you mean? The movements are so fine it's hard to see where the motion is coming from, but it sure as hell isn't the elbow joint except when changing strings. His forearm is vibrating, but that'd produce motion in the wrist... it's essentially the same thing I do, only I can't do it at over 300bpm!!!

 

It's hard to tell, but my impression was that he is indeed changing technique, when playing at 170bpm picking from the wrist / string-skipping with the elbow, and from 260bpm up he's picking from the elbow / string-skipping with the upper arm.

 

Also I wonder what "flying-pinky players" think about this video