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Not knowing theory.?


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Posted

Why is not knowing any musical theory seen as a good thing by many guitarists.?

 

I've heard it said by a few players that they "don't know any theoretical stuff".

 

My own view is the more I know the better I become in understanding.

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Posted

It all depends on what you want out of guitar. I have a relative who's a pretty good player and he doesn't know any theory really. He knows chord shapes, rhythm, and can improvise too by ear.

 

This guy has been playing for over 40 years and he doesn't know what the pentatonic scale is.

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Posted

Theory is mostly backwards intellectualizing. Playing of course wont work that way. Reverse left brain vs straight ahead right brain, do the math yada yada ...

I think the opinion is based on the 'little bit of knowledge' principle where players become pedantic and even sterile by taking a compositional tack. Obviously not everyone can or would want to master the architecture involved so there is some wisdom to the 'ignorance is bliss' school of music.

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Posted

Yeah, you can make arguments that getting intellectual about playing gets in the way of playing.

 

And you can make arguments that advanced theoretical understanding can take you places you never would go otherwise.

 

This is why this debate never goes away: because you can make arguments both ways, and they are both right. Each person needs to choose their path.

 

GaJ

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They are guided by patterns that work in many situations and usually play the same style of music continuously that those patterns fit nicely. From there they just keep working and expanding their arsenal with more patterns that work, then they keep turning those same patterns inside out and upside down to create new views of them.

 

The whole time though they are building their ear to using what they know properly or how to always make it sound good or know to avoid it if it's not going to sound good.

 

Sometimes these turn into more than just patterns for a lot of people and the outcome is completely different than where they started. Jeff Beck is a great example of that. Keith Richards too. Both those guys sound completely different in the 70's than they did in the 60's. A guy like Alvin Lee has patterns that he could fit in Rock, Blues, Country, and Jazz.

 

Guys like Jimi and Keith found their own chord patterns, or patterns off chord fragments that brought your simple run of the mill chord progression to a living form that still blow our minds.

 

One thing I always read from the 'knowledgeable" rockers back in the day (mid-70') was that they would say "I kind of play a Blues, Pentatonics, Mixolydian, and Dorian scale all in one". (Granted, most of the "rockin'" stuff was Dominant based).

 

I took me a few years to understand what they meant...and by combining the Blues Scale and Major Pentatonic scales on top of each other from the same Root (like drawing out G Blues on top of G Major Pent) you can see exactly what those guys were talking about. With those two common scales we all learn in books or from our buddies you can end up with ALL those scales the old rockers talked about. There are even more found with that idea than the rockers even comprehended.

 

In this case they/you didn't need to even need to know about Dorian or Mixolydian, all you need to know were what notes were available at all times, and then use the ears to make it work and take chances and risks in "what you can pull off". With only that, you can be a killin' rock guitarist.

 

I have a full blown tutorial on this very idea... http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/AdvPent/AvdPentTOC.htm READ the Introduction!

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Posted

The other guys are right too. Theory does not MAKE music, it helps you MAKE SENSE of, or communicate, music you played or are going to play.

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Posted

Why is not knowing any musical theory seen as a good thing by many guitarists.?


I've heard it said by a few players that they "don't know any theoretical stuff".

 

 

Ignorance is bliss, but sometimes it's just stupid.

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Posted

I think both sides are valid.

 

Here is my take

 

The "no theory" guys I have heard (who are awesome) usually play one or two very specific genres. So there patterns work fine in those circumstances. Typically these kinds of players just stay in their realm - and kicks ass - nothing at all wrong with that. Also most of these types of guys get their learnin on the streets - they gig and learn stuff from other players. So in this environment really theory isnt really that important.

 

The "theory" guys I know (again who kick ass) are typically sessions guys or union players who do multiple genres. These types are usually teachers so they need to be able to explain things. These types of players also typically get bored easy with one genre and are always seeking new sounds. Theory can help you teach yourself. Therefore if you are easily bored in one genre (as I am) you tend to want to seek out new concepts - therefore require theory knowledge. Or a lot of spare time and cash for lessons.

 

Both sides are equally valid dependent on the kind of person you are. Where it gets annoying is that a lot of time learning theory is "work" .... and that is a four letter word to some cats.

 

: )

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Posted

The main point with theory for me is communication. To be able tp tell someone what note to play in what measuer without having to actually demonstrate it is very practical.

- In bar two of the bridge, that's a Bbm7 chord and you're playing the 5th but try the b7th instead? Cause I'm playing the b3rd. Let's try that!

That's a lot faster than:

- You know, that place in the song where the meldoy goes like this... and then like this, you know... yeah, right there! And you're playing this note... and I'm playing... I'm playing... let's see... ah, there it is! yeah I'm playing that note!... and together with yours it sounds like... could you play your note again, please?... yeah, so with mine that sounds like... no, let's try it with you playing this note instead... what do you mean over the whole bridge? What's a bridge anyway? Stop talking all this technical stuff, OK! I mean during this part here when the melody goes like this... and then like this! How hard can it be? What note were you playing again? Ah, nevermind, let's just do it the way we did it before!

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Posted

wu ming,

For me, I tend to be a little left brained and therefore use music theory as a skeleton to try to branch out creatively from.

A talented right brained person does not need to stop and learn the theory about playing guitar... he just picks it up and creates music.

I would like to use theory as a means to an end and not an end in itself... the end being to create music. I'd like to be thought of as a musicain rather than an instrumentalist, which is what a pure theorist may be thought of as.

Based on what you said...

"My own view is the more I know the better I become in understanding", I'd suggest the right thing for you is to learn some theory.

http://GuitarMore.com

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Posted

A talented right brained person does not need to stop and learn the theory about playing guitar... he just picks it up and creates music.


 

 

 

.....as long as he is on his own. I'm with Terje in saying that theory is the language we need to communicate amongst ourselves as musicians.

 

It's no good asking a trumpet player to play 3rd fret 3 string, they need to know Bb (well it'd actually be Ab or something, but he could figure that out, not my fault his instrument is in the wrong key).

 

A lot of guitarist are scared of "theory", but I look at it like maths - I don't know what calculus is so a maths nerd would say I didn't really know maths, but I know how to count, add & subtract which is a basic minimum I need to function easily in society.

 

As a minimun musicians should know the names of the notes they are playing, the basics of major/minor scales, how to spell chords, and understand basic rhythm notation.

 

This will probably start a fight , but they should also know how read at least the treble clef of standard notation as it the common written language of music.

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Posted

I don't see the harm in learning a little theory... it's not going to change your style of playing, only give you more tools to work with

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Posted

Why is not knowing any musical theory seen as a good thing by many guitarists.?


I've heard it said by a few players that they "don't know any theoretical stuff".


My own view is the more I know the better I become in understanding.

 

 

I've heard guitarists say they don't want to learn theory blah, blah, blah, because they don't want to sound like anyone else... I like to point out that 90% of everyone else who plays guitar doesn't know any theory either.

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