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Learning songs note for note


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Does anyone here do this or do you just improvise when you can't seem to figure out a part? I'm at the moment trying to learn the solo to "Sunshine of Your Love", but on the Cream DVD Clapton improvises. To me learning note for note helps train the ear, but everyone is different. I was just curious as to how everyone here approaches learning songs by ear.

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I do a bit of both, look at tabs and ears to get the general form then improvise. If I were a rock star, god level as ec, it would be hellishly boring to do everything note for note...show after show...and would just go for the feeling, feed of the audience and improvise to keep it entertaining for my own sanity.

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I usually learn note-by-note as a starting point and educational excersize.

Sometimes though I don't bother. For example, the solos in Voodoo Chile (slight return). They are standard pentatonic wankery and I really felt no need to copy them. The riffs and licks in the intro I copied note for note however.

But when I went to learn Testify by SRV, I copied the solos note-for-note. I simplified some pieces however either because I cannot figure out exactly what's he's doing, or I am just unable to play it. I just can't improvise on that and have it sound halfway decent. This song is much more technically challenging than something like Voodoo Chile however, so I am probably just picking my spots based on my own talent level.

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ill learn the main themes note for note and then improvise using the main spots as a guideline.

 

Some 'epic' solos i have a interest in copying completely but mostly its boring for me to play note for note with the recording.

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I like transcribing note-for-note as a means of getting in another player's head, and getting OUT of my own over-used licks for a while.

After transcribing, I like to putting the information to use in new ways
(i.e. Play a solo over the "Little Wing" progression using the licks from the solo to "Stairway to Heaven").

On the surface, it can look like I'm just imitating others. From the inside, it gets me playing new/different things in new ways (and avoiding "finger habits").

Eventually, all that information gets dug in to my DNA and comes out as a part of my own style.

I use it as one of many tools to maintain and develop my own musical voice.

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Posted

Does anyone here do this or do you just improvise when you can't seem to figure out a part? I'm at the moment trying to learn the solo to "Sunshine of Your Love", but on the Cream DVD Clapton improvises. To me learning note for note helps train the ear, but everyone is different. I was just curious as to how everyone here approaches learning songs by ear.

 

 

Oh, and a cute little aside:

 

Clapton's original solo in Sunshine of Your Love is a quote from an old Jazz standard tune called "Blue Moon" Look it up!

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I'm of the opinion that learning songs and solos note-for-note by ear is one of the best things one can do to learn to play or improve their playing.

You'll also inadvertently learn something about theory in the process if you keep trying to understand the relationships between the notes you transcribe.

Learn all you can by ear, then forget it when you go to perform. That is, the goal of learning tunes/solos note-for-note shouldn't be so that you can play them that way on stage, but rather to improve your musicallity so that when you get on stage your pool of resources is full.

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After transcribing, I like to putting the information to use in new ways

(i.e. Play a solo over the "Little Wing" progression using the licks from the solo to "Stairway to Heaven").

 

 

interesting i may have to try this. I do a lot of mash ups with chord progressions and vocal melodies. I never really though if this approach though

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Not only does it show you how players play...but most importantly...hopefully it clues you into how to put together a cohesive and stylistic solo yourself.

 

But if you learn music from many different styles you'll end up with a vocabulary beyond the comfortable things your hands normally do everyday.

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Really depends what it is for.

 

If I am lifting a tune for some gig usually i just get the vibe of the solo (the scale forms used and any real signature spots) the rest I just do myself on the fly.

 

If it is for practice i do the detail work. Usually the thing I want the most is as Jon said "whats inside the players head". I want to know why lick sounds good so i try to analyze them, compare it to the backing chords and see if I can make them make sense theoretically. That way it is in there for me to apply to my stuff. Not the lick per se but more the spirit with which the lick was played.

 

As Jasco said using your ear to lift note for note is an amazing exercise that leads to being able to play whats in your head IMO.

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i work mostly by ear at the moment. sometimes i'll write stuff down too, but that is a {censored}ing hassle and a half.

 

for me, when i learn something by ear i'm much less likely to forget it than if i learn it off paper. it also helps to get me out of the normal crap that i tend to pay.

 

it's also really helpful for seeing how to develop ideas and make an improvisation go somewhere rather than just noddle for a few choruses

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Does anyone here do this or do you just improvise when you can't seem to figure out a part?

 

 

Try Amazing Slow Downer, Transcribe!, or similar software if you're having trouble.

 

Allan Holdsworth learned a lot of Eric Clapton solos and has been known to goof off with them during sound checks, even quote a bit of Clapton during an actual show.

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+1000 to Transcribe

 

Considering we used to have to lift a needle and try and plop it down in the middle of some 32nd-note flurry on some John Mclaughlin record...

 

you guys got it EASY these days. There should be no excuse for not being able to cop what you want to learn. Transcribe makes even the hardest parts pretty damn easy to cop.

 

Personally, if I'm playing a song by someone else for our group I learn the thing note for note from beginning to end, then if the leader of the band wants something else I can give it to him. But, in most cases he's listening to the same tune I am and I ALWAYS show him that "I got those parts".

 

Sometime we only have to learn a vamp part of a tune...so I learn it verbatim...so damn it, you are going to get back exactly what you handed to me to learn.

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Posted

I do my best to learn covers note for note (thanks guitar pro :thu:). When the band gets together there are times when adding a longer solo sounds good, then improvisation comes in.

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Sometimes though I don't bother. For example, the solos in Voodoo Chile (slight return). They are standard pentatonic wankery and I really felt no need to copy them...

But when I went to learn Testify by SRV, I copied the solos note-for-note... This song is much more technically challenging than something like Voodoo Chile however, so I am probably just picking my spots based on my own talent level.



Shall I cut out your tongue now or later? :cop:

Considering how SRV worshipped (and copied) Hendrix (particularily on a tune like "Testify"), I imagine he'd be doing consecutive 360 degree turns in his grave right now if he had internet access.

Both solos in Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) are masterpieces of solo construction and technique. The way he builds to that final "crying" note right before the fade-out still gives me chills. It's almost like he's ripping the guts out of that poor guitar.

I encourage you to give Jimi another listen-and realize where players like SRV came from.

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As someone who learned how to play guitar by copying songs and solos off of records (yes, junior, they were made out of vinyl back then), I have to say that it's an invaluble tool for learning-especially if you don't have access to a good guitar teacher. Transcribing is even better if you're interested in learning how to read music. Good luck and stick with it!

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+1000 to Guitar Pro! ;)

 

Be careful with tabs though. Some 'professional' transcribers have no idea what they're doing and many of these are transcribed by non-pros ("Play With Me" by Extreme done by yours truly, for instance).

 

As an instance, I was relearning the first solo of "Dirty Laundry" and pulled up the Guitar Pro tab. Not bad but there are so many complications in there that don't jive with the recording. Here I used WinAmp with Pacemaker to slow the Tempo -32 to listen to the solo to confirm that his complications were indeed ludicrous.

 

----15

--14

13

 

starting on E, A, and D strings each time he does that little run. Not different every time.

 

It is much better if you can see the original guitarist playing if you want accuracy. Not only do you get the notes but you get the positions, articulations, and much, much more! (s&h additional)

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In our band we learn tunes for each show. So your ramp up time is about a day and then you're on stage in front of 400 people playing it.

 

Everyone else in the band gets arrangement charts handed to them but there are no guitar charts :( But, since we might play the song one time every 3-4 months or so, I make my own charts so I don't really have to relearn the songs.

 

Some are chord charts, some are notated for certain hooks and stuff, but most solos stuff I tab out so I know excatly where to put my fingers again. And some are combination of all the above.

 

Some of the stuff is tough stuff. So I'm not going take the time learn right where to play and then need to figure it out again from notation. So I tab it.

 

I also use tab off the Internet...I should say...I CORRECT tab that's on the Internet, because so much of it is wrong or just half ass'ed. Someday I should release the book of ALL the tabs I've corrected! Maybe I'll do that actually.

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Posted
Shall I cut out your tongue now or later?
:cop:

Considering how SRV worshipped (and copied) Hendrix (particularily on a tune like "Testify"), I imagine he'd be doing consecutive 360 degree turns in his grave right now if he had internet access.


Both solos in Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) are masterpieces of solo construction and technique. The way he builds to that final "crying" note right before the fade-out still gives me chills. It's almost like he's ripping the guts out of that poor guitar.


I encourage you to give Jimi another listen-and realize where players like SRV came from.



That's why I said 'technically challenging'. I didn't mean better, more creative, more original, or more stylish. The SRV solos are much faster, with many more bends, double-stop bends, more notes in general, etc. I can't play the Hendrix solos at all....I can't make tasty little licks, simple bends, and guitar noises sound cool like Hendrix does. With so many fewer notes, there's a lot more room for stylish creativity and ambience, exactly what you were desribing. For example, my vibrato is inferior, and you notice it less when the notes are flying by like in Testify. But with Voodoo Chile, your vibrato, particularly on bent notes, gets left out there for all to see. It would take me a lot more time to deconstruct and sound good on those Hendrix Voodoo Chile solos than it took me to get a piece of SRV's Testify.

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Posted
I also use tab off the Internet...I should say...I CORRECT tab that's on the Internet, because so much of it is wrong or just half ass'ed. Someday I should release the book of ALL the tabs I've corrected! Maybe I'll do that actually.



You do that too!? :thu:

Exact timing is sometimes very difficult to recreate, especially on solos, so I'm forgiving in that direciton. But the choices for fingerings are sometimes counterintuitive and not very efficient. And so on... :mad:

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Posted

That's why I said 'technically challenging'. I didn't mean better, more creative, more original, or more stylish. The SRV solos are much faster, with many more bends, double-stop bends, more notes in general, etc. I can't play the Hendrix solos at all....I can't make tasty little licks, simple bends, and guitar noises sound cool like Hendrix does. With so many fewer notes, there's a lot more room for stylish creativity and ambience, exactly what you were desribing. For example, my vibrato is inferior, and you notice it less when the notes are flying by like in Testify. But with Voodoo Chile, your vibrato, particularly on bent notes, gets left out there for all to see. It would take me a lot more time to deconstruct and sound good on those Hendrix Voodoo Chile solos than it took me to get a piece of SRV's Testify.

 

 

Point well taken. Just an over-reaction from a Hendrix freak-he's the reason I've tortured myself for 20 years playing the blues. Btw, I saw SRV play "Testify" at a Holiday Inn bar in Odessa, TX in 1983. I was 15 years old, and talked my friend's cool hippie mom into driving me over there from SE New Mexico (Don't ask about the web of lies I told my Mom to get there). Totally blew my mind...

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Posted

I haven't been able to play lately because of work, but I am 3/4 of the way done with the "Sunshine" solo. I am getting to a tricky part where it gets a little faster, and I don't think I will be able to get it accurately even though I will try. Does anyone have any tips for a situation like this? Thanks.

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Posted

This is when many people use those "slow down" apps.

 

Myself I seldom resort to those. Usually I figure out the backing chord at that spot. From there I determine what scale/key he is likely using at that point. Then I try to find the descernable notes and how many notes are being played in that cluster. Then I muck around filling in the holes until I get it.

 

It's tricky but real good ear stuff. Good luck!

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Sometimes, even with 'slow down' apps, other instruments and singing can make by-ear discernment very difficult. Say, if there are two guitars, bass, keyboard, lots of drums bangin', and a singer wailing it can be downright impossible to hear what is the guitar and what isn't. I'll either improvise or do the backing chords in those cases unless there is 'authoritative' tab available.

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