problems trying to figure out guitar part of Through The fire (Chaka Khan)

[Santuzzo]

I'm trying to figure out this song, I got the harmony scheme figured out but I'm working on getting the muted funky single note guitar and I'm having some problems with that. Main problem is I can't hear that guitar part very well in the mix.

So my question is: if you guys have to figure something out like this and you can't really get that single note guitar part to 100%, would you keep trying and even spend many hours until you got it as close as you can get or would you rather choose to make or improvise your own part that sounds like the part on the CD?

To me at this point the latter option seems more reasonable, sonce I think gettign everything EXACTLY will either take me VEEERY long or I won't even get it figured out 100%. Nor do I actually think it would make that big of a difference when playing this with my band.

 

What's your opinion on this? Do you ever encounter situations where you want to figure out all the details to a guitart part (that's, as in this case, more of a background part) but you just can't seem to get it because it's hard to hear it clearly in the mix?

 

How do you solve these kinds of situations?

 

Thanks,

Lars

[halfwhole]

some slow down programs have an EQ that can help. also see if you can hear what the bass is doing

[Santuzzo]

 

some slow down programs have an EQ that can help. also see if you can hear what the bass is doing

 

 

THanks.

I actually use Transcribe for this, and the EQ helped me figuring out the bass which I usually do first when figuring out the harmonies.

But what I was talking about in my initial post was the specific guitar part, it's a funky single note muted clean guitar, and I have problems hearing it in the mix.

So what I did for now was I figured out my own part that is in the same style and here and there where I could lift off a few of the notes played, I took over those but built them around my own stuff.

[Phlat Phive]

If it's low in the mix, then the audience probably won't notice that it's different anyway, right?

 

I'd say an approximation is good enough, as long as you still capture the same basic feel of the part.

[Santuzzo]

If it's low in the mix, then the audience probably won't notice that it's different anyway, right? I'd say an approximation is good enough, as long as you still capture the same basic feel of the part.

 

Thanks !

 

Yes, this is what I thought so far as well.

 

But then I was doubting myself and thinking 'or am I just too lazy to figure it out 100/% right/or are my eras not good enough to do the job/or BOTH'

 

But in the end, yes, an approximation will have to do here. Even if I spent 10 hours and I could get it exactly right then, I am not sure whether that would be the right thing to do, since in those 10 hours I could figure out other songs.

[halfwhole]

is this the tune? which sections are giving you trouble?

iHQv8McdDMg

[Santuzzo]

 

 

 

Yes, that's the tune.

 

The problem for me starts at about 0:47 and goes through until the end of the chorus. I can hear that the muted single note guitar plays there and I get a couple of the notes but not all of it. I also think in the chorus there are mroe than one guitar (I think one guitar plays some arpeggiated chrods here and there).

I got an approximation, but I wish my ears were good enough to get it 100% exactly.

 

And for me the main issue/concern is that I want to learn to be able to lift parts like that off a record, to fine tune my ears so they can pick out those guitar parts that I now have trouble hearing clearly in the mix.

Do you know what I mean?

 

Also, I am wondering if others would have problems figuring this out/hearing it cleary in the mix as well, or if this is just me?

[Phlat Phive]

And for me the main issue/concern is that I want to learn to be able to lift parts like that off a record, to fine tune my ears so they can pick out those guitar parts that I now have trouble hearing clearly in the mix. Do you know what I mean?

 

Well, like you said, that will just take a lot of time, and a lot a skipping back and repeating. It's a worthwhile endeavour to improve that skill, but it won't be any fun.

 

Also, I am wondering if others would have problems figuring this out/hearing it cleary in the mix as well, or if this is just me?

 

Hard to say for me, listening to a youtube video through crappy headphones, without a guitar in my hands. I can hear that it is quite low in the mix, and the electric piano doesn't leave it a lot of room. There also seems to be a delay effect of some sort on the guitar, which makes it more difficult as well.

[Santuzzo]

Well, like you said, that will just take a lot of time, and a lot a skipping back and repeating. It's a worthwhile endeavour to improve that skill, but it won't be any fun. Hard to say for me, listening to a youtube video through crappy headphones, without a guitar in my hands. I can hear that it is quite low in the mix, and the electric piano doesn't leave it a lot of room. There also seems to be a delay effect of some sort on the guitar, which makes it more difficult as well.

 

 

Thanks !

I appreciate your input.

[gennation]

Sometimes you need to find a better copy to listen to other than youtube. Find the song on imeem.com (it's sounds light years better than what you posted), then capture it with Transcribe and save is as a .wav file.

 

Next, PUT YOU GUITAR DOWN. Tune Transcribe to give the clearest sound of the guitar...AND LISTEN over and over. You'll find you'll be a able to sing the guitar part...this will help you pick out the rhythm, and the notes.

 

It's obvious that you can't hear it. If you can't hear it, chances are you'll never be able to play it. In these cases I set the guitar down and working hearing it.

 

I can hear it much better on imeem, but still it would take a few listens to to pick it out, but Transcribe shouldn't have too much of an issue making it stand out. Don't forget the listen right side of the stereo spectrum alone, that seems to be where they placed the guitar.

[jonfinn]

For me, it depends on why I'd want to get it exactly right:

 

-If it were for my own knowledge, I'd do whatever it takes to get it as close as I possibly can, then finally give up when I just can't get it any better. But go back to it later.

 

-If I'm doing an "exact" transcription, I'd get it as close as I can.

 

-If I'm playing it for a gig w/ Chaka Kahn, I'd get it pretty close to "right on" but I wouldn't obsess about it. Chances are good that she doesn't know what the part is, and that her musical director know what he/she wants regardless of what's on the CD.

 

-If I'm playing it in a cover band, "ballpark" is usually close enough. The tune's mostly driven by piano, bass, drums, percussion, vox. Guitar's role is "ear candy"

 

Make sense?

[Santuzzo]

For me, it depends on why I'd want to get it exactly right: -If it were for my own knowledge, I'd do whatever it takes to get it as close as I possibly can, then finally give up when I just can't get it any better. But go back to it later. -If I'm doing an "exact" transcription, I'd get it as close as I can. -If I'm playing it for a gig w/ Chaka Kahn, I'd get it pretty close to "right on" but I wouldn't obsess about it. Chances are good that she doesn't know what the part is, and that her musical director know what he/she wants regardless of what's on the CD. -If I'm playing it in a cover band, "ballpark" is usually close enough. The tune's mostly driven by piano, bass, drums, percussion, vox. Guitar's role is "ear candy" Make sense?

 

Thanks, Jon. Also great input here.

 

Would it be hard for you guys as well to get that part off the track, or is it just me?

 

When I tried figuring out the song I was not using this YouTube clip. I got an mp3 of it from another band member, it sounds good to me. I don't think the sound quality of the recording I was using is the issue, I think it's my ears.

To my surprise getting the harmony down for making a chord chart did not take very long this time.

 

See, the main issue here is not so much perse that I don't play 100% what's on the CD, but that I failed at trying to figure it out to 100%, this shows me that my ears need a lot more work, as in ear training.

 

Thanks again for your posts, everybody.

[Santuzzo]

I got back trying to figure out some more of the real guitar part in this tune, I think I got the pre-chorus, but the chorus, I just can't seem to get it. I am listenint with headphones, using transcribe to all it's force (slowed down, tweaked the EQ in different ways). I am about to give up. I think at this point my ears are simply not good enough yet to figure this stuff out. Gotta accept that and keep working on my aural skills.

I also think it's not very time-efficient spending hours on getting this guitar part figured out exactly, when in the same time I could figure out a couple of other tunes I need to learn.

What do you guys think?

I'm a bit frustrated now, but I don't want to get stuck on this tune....

[Phlat Phive]

I'd go with the "close enough" version, if you're pressed for time.

 

But I'm a lazy bastard, I tend to not play things literally anyway.

[Santuzzo]

I'd go with the "close enough" version, if you're pressed for time. But I'm a lazy bastard, I tend to not play things literally anyway.

 

Thanks.

 

It's not that I'm pressed for time, actually, and I also don't think it would matter too much in temrs of the band sound, it's more of a thing that I am frustrated about me not being able to figure it out.

And I now tihnk, no matter how much more time I put in it, I won't get it figured out, I spent about 90 mins only on the chorus last night and I did not get it.

If I knew I could figure it out if I only out in the time, then I'd absolutely be fine with the "close enough" approach, usually for a cover band that is the most practical anyway.

I will definitely need to work on my ears a lot more. Learning and figuring out more tunes like this will help a lot I hope.