Members thulsa_doom2 Posted May 26, 2009 Members Posted May 26, 2009 and what are a modes 'notes' that bring out that mode's characteristics (ie, to get that "dorian" sound, "lydian sound a la satch", etc) I know what modes are, I just want to know what chords to use. I want to write 7 songs with each song in a different mode just to see what it sounds like. So far all I know is Ionian: Say for C major, I will play a 4-5-1 in C major , and resolve on 1, maj 3rd, 5th etc to bring out the C major sound. And if it's in C minor I'll play a bunch of minor chords in C minor and resolve on the b3rd, b6, b7th and the 1st to establish that I am in C minor. So what about Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixo, Locrian? What chords to use and what notes to resolve on? Thanks in advance!
Poparad Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 The root, third, and 5th of each scale form the basic triad that is the sound of that mode. The 7th is often included too in modes to help further distinguish one from another. If you keep going up in thirds, you get the rest of the notes left in the scale: 9th, 11th, and 13th, which are called the 'upper extensions.' These can be added to further color the chord, but aren't always essential. They do help though, when they're unique to that mode There are three modes that have a minor triad at their core: dorian, phrygian, and aeolian. If you extend it one more note to a 7th chord, they are still all the same: a minor 7th chord. In C: Triad - C minor - C Eb G7th chord - Cmin7 - C Eb G Bb Only dorian has a natural 6th/13th ('A' in this case), so adding that note can really help bring out the dorian sound. Only phyrgian has a b2/b9 (Db), and the same for that. Aeolian has a natural 2/9 (D), and a b6/b13 (Ab), so it's not as distinctive, but through experience, it's the "default" minor mode, and what our ears generally tend to expect in the first place anyway, so it's not as essential to spell it all out. All three modes have a natural 4/11 (F). For major, there are three modes: Ionian, Lydian, and Mixolydian. They all have major triads at the core, but different 7th chords. Ionian and Lydian have maj7 chords, while Mixolydian has a dominant 7th: C major triad - C E GCmaj7 - C E G BC7 - C E G Bb For mixolydian, the C7 chord alone is enough to specify the mode, though extras can be added. The upper extensions in mixolydian are 9 (D), 11 (F), and 13 (A). The 11th is a little tricky to use without it clashing, so it's often left out of chords, but it is possible to use it if voiced the right way. For ionian and lydian, the only difference is the 11th. Ionian has 9, 11, and 13, while lydian has 9, #11 (F#), and 13. So for lydian, a Cmaj7 chord with a #11 added will specificy exactly what mode is being used. The 9th and 13th are useful too, but since they aren't different from ionian, they don't specifically point to lydian like the #11 does.
Members Jeffmo Posted May 27, 2009 Members Posted May 27, 2009 each mode has it's own character that differs from the Ionian mode (Major)or the Aeolian mode (Minor) Dorian- it's a minor scale with a major sixth in it (unlike the Aeolian with a minor six) Phyrgian- minor scale with a minor 2nd Lydian- major scale with a raised 4th(tri-tone)Mixolydian- major scale with a minor 7th (unlike the Ionian with a Major 7th)Locrian- minor scale with a minor 2nd and a FLAT 5th for chord progression for each start on the tonic of each mode and use other notes as roots for different chord changes in that mode
Members Jeffmo Posted May 28, 2009 Members Posted May 28, 2009 The root, third, and 5th of each scale form the basic triad that is the sound of that mode. The 7th is often included too in modes to help further distinguish one from another. If you keep going up in thirds, you get the rest of the notes left in the scale: 9th, 11th, and 13th, which are called the 'upper extensions.' These can be added to further color the chord, but aren't always essential. They do help though, when they're unique to that modeThere are three modes that have a minor triad at their core: dorian, phrygian, and aeolian. If you extend it one more note to a 7th chord, they are still all the same: a minor 7th chord. In C:Triad - C minor - C Eb G7th chord - Cmin7 - C Eb G BbOnly dorian has a natural 6th/13th ('A' in this case), so adding that note can really help bring out the dorian sound. Only phyrgian has a b2/b9 (Db), and the same for that. Aeolian has a natural 2/9 (D), and a b6/b13 (Ab), so it's not as distinctive, but through experience, it's the "default" minor mode, and what our ears generally tend to expect in the first place anyway, so it's not as essential to spell it all out. All three modes have a natural 4/11 (F).For major, there are three modes: Ionian, Lydian, and Mixolydian. They all have major triads at the core, but different 7th chords. Ionian and Lydian have maj7 chords, while Mixolydian has a dominant 7th:C major triad - C E GCmaj7 - C E G BC7 - C E G BbFor mixolydian, the C7 chord alone is enough to specify the mode, though extras can be added. The upper extensions in mixolydian are 9 (D), 11 (F), and 13 (A). The 11th is a little tricky to use without it clashing, so it's often left out of chords, but it is possible to use it if voiced the right way.For ionian and lydian, the only difference is the 11th. Ionian has 9, 11, and 13, while lydian has 9, #11 (F#), and 13. So for lydian, a Cmaj7 chord with a #11 added will specificy exactly what mode is being used. The 9th and 13th are useful too, but since they aren't different from ionian, they don't specifically point to lydian like the #11 does. when you say "natural" do you mean Major or Minor??
Members gennation Posted May 28, 2009 Members Posted May 28, 2009 Don't believe all the jive about a Mode having a certain 'color' or 'brightness'... spend your time figuring out what notes sound good, and THEN why. It's the music and context that determines whether a set of notes is bright or dark, or that "that M7 is really a strong note here".
Members meganutt7 Posted May 28, 2009 Members Posted May 28, 2009 A thing that Frank Gambale used to demonstrate actually is pretty cool for modal playing, as most of the time most people adhere to the root, as far as the lowest note in a modal situation. What Gambale would do is keep the ROOT the same and then over the top would play a I-IV-V but in the modal key... Meaning.... If you are in C major... you would play a C, then an F/C then a G/C.... If you are in C Dorian... Cm - F/C - Gm/C C Phrygian: Cm - Fm/C - Gdim/C C Lydian: C - F#dim/C - G/C C Mixolydian: C - F/C - Gm/C C Aeolian: Cm - Fm/C - Gm/C C Locrian: Cdim - Fm/C - Gb/C This leaves the roots firmly planted, while the upper structures plug in the holes with the notes that are native to that mode. Most modals playing depends on the redundancy of the root, since it's all about the relationship to it.. If you start playing too many chords that are relative to the mode's possible harmonies, it can end up sounding like straight major and minor (as that is how most of our Western ears perceive harmony...) This is a great way to practice modes and hearing them though... I remember doing that when I was like 16 or so... I made a tape of 5 minute jams, all in different modes from the root C and then applied that I-IV-V idea over a static bassline that stays in C as a tonal center... Then, when you jam over it, you can really feel the gravity of the mode and it is alot easier to comprehend its sound!!!
Members Jeffmo Posted May 28, 2009 Members Posted May 28, 2009 Don't believe all the jive about a Mode having a certain 'color' or 'brightness'...spend your time figuring out what notes sound good, and THEN why.It's the music and context that determines whether a set of notes is bright or dark, or that "that M7 is really a strong note here". who said that??
Members gennation Posted May 28, 2009 Members Posted May 28, 2009 To OP, just learn to build your chords all the way to the "13" and then learn how to take even the simplest song and flesh out the harmonies to the "13", the notes found in these "13" chords will be all the notes of the "Mode" that made it.
Members beisenla Posted May 29, 2009 Members Posted May 29, 2009 The root, third, and 5th of each scale form the basic triad that is the sound of that mode. The 7th is often included too in modes to help further distinguish one from another. If you keep going up in thirds, you get the rest of the notes left in the scale: 9th, 11th, and 13th, which are called the 'upper extensions.' These can be added to further color the chord, but aren't always essential. They do help though, when they're unique to that modeThere are three modes that have a minor triad at their core: dorian, phrygian, and aeolian. If you extend it one more note to a 7th chord, they are still all the same: a minor 7th chord. In C:Triad - C minor - C Eb G7th chord - Cmin7 - C Eb G BbOnly dorian has a natural 6th/13th ('A' in this case), so adding that note can really help bring out the dorian sound. Only phyrgian has a b2/b9 (Db), and the same for that. Aeolian has a natural 2/9 (D), and a b6/b13 (Ab), so it's not as distinctive, but through experience, it's the "default" minor mode, and what our ears generally tend to expect in the first place anyway, so it's not as essential to spell it all out. All three modes have a natural 4/11 (F).For major, there are three modes: Ionian, Lydian, and Mixolydian. They all have major triads at the core, but different 7th chords. Ionian and Lydian have maj7 chords, while Mixolydian has a dominant 7th:C major triad - C E GCmaj7 - C E G BC7 - C E G BbFor mixolydian, the C7 chord alone is enough to specify the mode, though extras can be added. The upper extensions in mixolydian are 9 (D), 11 (F), and 13 (A). The 11th is a little tricky to use without it clashing, so it's often left out of chords, but it is possible to use it if voiced the right way.For ionian and lydian, the only difference is the 11th. Ionian has 9, 11, and 13, while lydian has 9, #11 (F#), and 13. So for lydian, a Cmaj7 chord with a #11 added will specificy exactly what mode is being used. The 9th and 13th are useful too, but since they aren't different from ionian, they don't specifically point to lydian like the #11 does. Thanks for the description Poparad. This is similar to how I started studying this. It really helped me to begin to understand application of modes (still studying of course). My guitar teacher at the time had me writing short modal pieces based on the criteria he specified. It was pretty helpful.
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