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Where do I go from here? (Get me back on a learning track)


Grogsky

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Posted

*Beware: this may look like an essay but it's not I'm just giving you everything you need to know*

 

I've come to a very odd point to be at with playing guitar. While some things are easy as pie for me others absolutely elude me and seem impossible. I've never really had "lessons" which I guess makes me self taught for the most part. Let me give you people some more information about what led up to this point.

 

I've been playing guitar for nearly six years now (since Freshman year of highschool) and I've had personal one-on-one lessons for about three months of those six years. After I lost my teacher I fell into bad habits and lacked a clear route of advance towards the next step I was should have been going towards. I probably spent close to a full year doing one thing: being able to play only 16th note downstrokes at 188+ BPM. Because I wasn't really thinking about how I could become a better player I fell into a deeper hole. That was three years ago and I've come some distance since that. I'm much more open-minded and ready to take what ever is given to me.

 

CURRENT POSITION: I know VERY BASIC music theory (Notes in the major scale, what makes a minor, major, and seventh chord and the numbers of the notes). I know the Minor Pentatonic scale in two shapes. I can play most any chord progression thrown at me. I have an above-beginners grasp of lead with the pentatonic. I can read tabs, write tabs etc.

 

I'm okay with setting my sights low for guitar playing expertise because I know what I would like to be able to do. I'm not a big fan of "guitar-god" solo ability and never have.

 

WHERE I WANT TO BE: Have the ability to come up with leads and licks that are quick, catchy, and surprisingly basic (see my favorite guitar players at the bottom of the page). To have enough theory under my belt that I know above-basic chord structure how to make a progression of chords and know why they sound good together. Be able to get in good habits and keep myself from playing the same thing too many times when either playing a lead or noodling on my own.

 

I live in Berkeley CA so there are abundant resources around me for getting info, lesson books and teachers. How should I go about getting to my goal and who/what should help me get there? Any online stuff I should check out, DVDs, CDs, local people?

 

Anything you can say about this is a GREAT help.

 

Favorite lead guitar players:

Kim Thayil (Soundgarden)

James Williamson (Iggy & The Stooges)

Ace Frehley (Kiss)

Link Wray

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Posted

3 things to getting you to your soloing goals:

work on getting comfortable enough with the scales you know that you can play them all over the neck in any key without too much trouble. this will help with the next two steps:

learn to play the solos you like.

learning to play what you sing.

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Posted

By the sounds of it and your list of players there you may already have the required understanding to achieve this goal.

 

Were I you at this point I would focus on "doing" work on your writing. Write tunes, licks everything. There more you do it the better you get at it. You said you dont want to be a guitar god - sounds like you want to be a writer - so write.

 

Listen, lift stuff you like. Check out the chords under the leads you like and try to understand the players view on it. Then write something to apply this principal. Read, research, listen more.

 

Sounds simple but most people spend way more time "practicing to one day play something great" but they spend very little time actually taking steps towards that end.

 

My 2 cents

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Posted

 

By the sounds of it and your list of players there you may already have the required understanding to achieve this goal.


Were I you at this point I would focus on "doing" work on your writing. Write tunes, licks everything. There more you do it the better you get at it. You said you dont want to be a guitar god - sounds like you want to be a writer - so write.


Listen, lift stuff you like. Check out the chords under the leads you like and try to understand the players view on it. Then write something to apply this principal. Read, research, listen more.


Sounds simple but most people spend way more time "practicing to one day play something great" but they spend very little time actually taking steps towards that end.


My 2 cents

 

 

+ a lot.

 

I think one of the most underated ways to improve as a guitar player is to actually write songs. The best investment I've made recently was a line6 backtrack..I just have it on all the time..records every thing I play and as a result, I don't lose any potentially cool ideas anymore.

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Posted

 

that wasn't very helpful 1001

 

 

You too?

Why not? It helps everyone to know what the poster has in mind. How can you scale an answer without knowing a guy's abilities and ambitions?

I'm centered on you gotta dig deep for the gold. No shortcuts. How much more helpful do you need?

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Posted

Even though you wrote a lengthy question, it's still kind of vague.

 

You've got a lot of good advice. I'd echo Jeremy thoughts and say to keep that guitar in your hands a lot and 'just do it'.

 

 

I believe that almost anyone can benefit from working on timing/groove as well as listening skills, so those might be a couple areas to focus on.

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Posted

 

You too?

Why not? It helps everyone to know what the poster has in mind. How can you scale an answer without knowing a guy's abilities and ambitions?

I'm centered on you gotta dig deep for the gold. No shortcuts. How much more helpful do you need?

 

 

don't pretend to be doing something you're not.

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Posted

 

don't pretend to be doing something you're not.

 

 

1001's question seems perfectly legit to me (albeit with a twang of sarcasm : )

 

1001 has always been very intelligent and helpful in the past on threads where people need assistance. I see no need to mock him now. Nothing wrong with poking someone to get a response which may hold the key to a more targeted answer.

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Posted

not really. the guy's been playing for 6 years, so you know he's put in time and knows what it takes to reach at least a few goals. he's asking fairly simple questions about fairly specific goals and says he's open minded about listening, and i don't see any reason to give him a hard time instead of helping him.

all 1001 did was be derisive.

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Posted

and before you jump to his defense, think about it. how long does it take to gain a basic ability to play a solo? a few weeks, a few months?

the guy wasn't asking how long it would take him to be a star, he just wanted to learn to play a lead line.

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Posted

Agreed, I never like derision aimed at new posters.

 

But the OP's quest is lofty one that would take some time to achieve no? This isnt a technical question like "how much do I need to practice to play 16th notes at 220 BPM" this is a much MUCH more elusive goal.

 

Asking "how do I write great riffs and licks" is an extremely lofty (yet really great) goal - so asking how much time he has available isnt out of line IMO.

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Posted

 

that wasn't very helpful 1001

 

 

Arguing and name calling isn't very helpful either.

 

 

 

I too found the original posters question a little vague, and would need more information before providing much useful information.

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Posted

I'm fill in some of the gaps from my last post with this one.

 

ANSWER FOR 1001: When I was playing punk I was setting aside a lot of time to play stuff that was counter-productive. It's only been in the last year or so where I've set myself to getting the lead guitar sound I want.

 

I've been listening to all those guys solos for a long time. I know what I like about what they're doing and I'm having a hard time getting myself to be able to do the same things. If any of you people have heard Kim Thayil, James Williamson or any of those guys I mentioned play you know that what they're doing isn't something that people have a hard time doing.

 

Take a look at this guy playing a Williamson Solo fastforward to 2:47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lgfBVLwjY&feature=related

 

So many people who play guitar with any amount of ability can do that and I know I can too. I just need to know HOW to get to that point from where I am. On that song in the video "Search and Destroy" I can play those the beginning leads no sweat but after that It's hard for me to nail the others. That brings me to MY lead playing; I'm now naturally inclined to play leads that sound like that but my fingers won't agree with what my brain is thinking up. I've got a habit of playing the notes that are next to each other in the Minor Pentatonic sequence and it's getting my stuck playing the same thing too much. How should I go about breaking the bonds that keep me from playing rip-roaring cacophonies?

 

I'm glad to see that my thread where I'm pleading for help with something that's been bringing me down for years became a shoving match for forum regulars. Please people, if you're going to take up space in my thread use that space to help me!

 

ANSWER TO WHATS PLAYED AT 180BPM WITH DOWN STROKE 16TH NOTES ONLY: The Ramones playing live.

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Posted

 

I'm fill in some of the gaps from my last post with this one.


ANSWER FOR 1001: When I was playing punk I was setting aside a lot of time to play stuff that was counter-productive. It's only been in the last year or so where I've set myself to getting the lead guitar sound I want.


I've been listening to all those guys solos for a long time. I know what I like about what they're doing and I'm having a hard time getting myself to be able to do the same things. If any of you people have heard Kim Thayil, James Williamson or any of those guys I mentioned play you know that what they're doing isn't something that people have a hard time doing.


Take a look at this guy playing a Williamson Solo fastforward to 2:47



So many people who play guitar with any amount of ability can do that and I know I can too. I just need to know HOW to get to that point from where I am. On that song in the video "Search and Destroy" I can play those the beginning leads no sweat but after that It's hard for me to nail the others. That brings me to MY lead playing; I'm now naturally inclined to play leads that sound like that but my fingers won't agree with what my brain is thinking up.
I've got a habit of playing the notes that are next to each other in the Minor Pentatonic sequence and it's getting my stuck playing the same thing too much. How should I go about breaking the bonds that keep me from playing rip-roaring cacophonies?


I'm glad to see that my thread where I'm pleading for help with something that's been bringing me down for years became a shoving match for forum regulars. Please people, if you're going to take up space in my thread use that space to help me!


ANSWER TO WHATS PLAYED AT 180BPM WITH DOWN STROKE 16TH NOTES ONLY: The Ramones playing live.

 

 

 

Have you tried singing melodies before trying to play them on guitar?..

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Posted

Hey Grogsky,

 

I still stand by my earlier suggestion for you to start "writing" your own licks.

 

How to begin? Listen to the ones you like by your favs and mimic them to get the vibe. Writing really is a craft and soloing is essentially writing on the spot. So the more creative you can be with a song or a riff directly translates into soloing.

 

Do a study on the players you like. Learn their solos by ear. Then go back and check the chord progression and see why he did that. Once you start doing this, and you do it many times, you will begin to see patterns. Thing is - if you never start doing this those patterns they play will always remain abstract concepts to you. You gotta get in there and see why it ticks.

 

Good luck bro!

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Posted

Hi Grogsky, I think what you want to learn next is how to improvise over a chord sequence. At least the rudiments of it.

 

I would ask around to find which guitar method book teaches that. The Berklee guitar books maybe? Or something by Aebersold. Amazon.com shows the table of contents of a lot of guitar method books; that may be one place to start. Find out some book that starts from zero if possible. If you already know a lot of the stuff in the first 3 chapters, that's the book for you.

 

Then, go ahead and read the book, starting on page 1. Learn to play the exercises on the book until you can get them to sound good enough -- as if you had to play them for your teacher.

 

There will be a lot of boring stuff -- just slog through it, or you may end up not understanding some other stuff further down the road. The first 3 chapters will be super-easy; you already know most of what's in them so you will finish a chapter every day or so. Great. After that, some new concepts will appear and you will need to spend more time on each exercise until you get them right. Even better.

 

Keep going until the end of the book/series of books, or until you are satisfied with your level of playing.

 

Now, these books always make you go through the same boring pieces, Frere Jacques and Oh Susanna and lots of boring exercises that sound terrible. You just plug ahead: they're a means to an end. There will be a lot of soul-crushing exercises and pieces, but they are a means to an end. They cramp your style, yes, but they are a means to an end. They are awful, but they are a means to an end. I hope I'm making myself clear here...

 

The alternative is, you read an article from magazine X and get a sideways glimpse of some cool concept, then you read a web page on some unrelated rad thechnique, and it kind of makes sense but not entirely... and you never get the whole picture!

 

Plus, a lot of times, these articles and web pages don't explain all the pre-requisite stuff so you end up kind of understanding but not really. That happened to me a lot, and I wasted a lot of time :( Don't waste your time like that. Going through the Ode to Joy and A minor arpeggio exercises will end up saving you time in the long run. Yes, they sound corny but they are... a means to an end?

 

Well, that's what I would do anyway. That's what I ended up doing... too late for me, alas.

 

Don't let it be too late for you. Good luck with your music, whatever path you chose!

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