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I started taking some lessons because.......


12Gauge

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Posted

I felt like I was up against a brick wall.

 

My teacher has me chording major scales. Eg: C, Dm, Em, F, G7, Am, Bm7, C.

I am learning to chord in all the keys but here's the trick. He has instructed me to memorize chord numbers rather than names and as to where they are located in the scale. Like Dm would be III, G7 would be V, Am would be VI etc. Of course this applies when chording all the major scales.

 

I'm taking is word for it but he says by learning this along with arpeggios, major and pentatonic scales, it will eventualy lead me to recognize what is being played and how it's being played in songs I listen to. I can kind of understand scales but where does chording scales fit in? Why memorize numbered chords?

 

Does this make sense?

 

The nice thing about it is that I can book the next lesson when I'm ready for it. No set schedule.

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Posted

It might not make complete sense to you right now, but it will make sense soon, as you study it more. It will be a very helpful, powerful tool to you as a guitarist. The Roman numerals are relative, so they teach you the chord progression structure that can be used to transpose a song to any key. If your example was in the key of C, I believe the II chord would be a Dm7. Good luck on mastering these harmonized chord scales!

http://www.GuitarMore.com

Posted

The advantage to numbering the chords is that the numbers remain the same from key to key. A "I" chord always sounds like a "I" chord, no matter if you're in the key of D or the key of Ab or so on. A "ii" is always a "ii," and so on. This will allow you to recognize chord progressions that are the same or similar, but in different keys. It will allow you to take what you've learned in one key and transpose it to other keys without having to relearn everything again.

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Posted

it's because once you learn the ideas behind the numbers, you can apply them to different keys.

for instance, those chords are all in C major. if you're in D major, the chords are D, Em, F#m, G, etc. if you're in E, it's another set like that.

the cool thing about the guitar is that you can use the same chord shapes for different keys just by shifting up and down the neck. you don't need to learn a different pattern for each key like you do with a piano. each pattern you learn on the guitar is universally applicable.

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Posted

As others have pointed out, it's all about the relationship between the chords - the intervals between their root notes.

The interval structure of the diatonic chord scale (which is what you're learning) is the same as the major scale. To begin with, I learned this sequence using just E form barre chords (so a low E string root note for each chord)...

W = whole step/whole tone - the equivalent of a two fret space
H = half step/semitone - the equivalent of a single fret space

I W ii W iii H IV W V W vi W vii H I

So starting on the open E major chord as our tonic (I) chord...

E W F#m W Abm H A W B W C#m W Ebdim H E

Once I'd mastered that, I knew I could also use other chord shapes, rooted on the A and D strings, for example, so I set about learning these intervals across more than one string.

I also learned I could modify and extend those basic triad major/minor chords but that's a separate series of lessons in itself.

Thing is, if you learn the major scale and spend some time learning chord shapes, it's just a case of building those chord shapes on the degrees of that scale.

Very rewarding to learn!

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Posted

Could you guys explain more about the "chord shapes".

Im not really following this statment "The cool thing about the guitar is that you can use the same chord shapes for different keys just by shifting up and down the neck. you don't need to learn a different pattern for each key like you do with a piano. each pattern you learn on the guitar is universally applicable."

It sounds like you are saying that the fingering for each chord in the scale will not change from key to key. I could understand that if I were to use nothing but barre chords. Is that what you guys are saying??

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Posted


It sounds like you are saying that the fingering for each chord in the scale will not change from key to key. I could understand that if I were to use nothing but barre chords. Is that what you guys are saying??


 

 

Yes.

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Posted

Yes.

 

 

 

Okay gotcha. Do you guys tend to use barre chords more than open chords when you play electric??

 

I just like the sound of open chords more, but if the amp is turned up, then they do get pretty cluddered.

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Posted

Okay gotcha. Do you guys tend to use barre chords more than open chords when you play electric??


I just like the sound of open chords more, but if the amp is turned up, then they do get pretty cluddered.

 

 

First, I don't necesarily think of movable chords as barre chords, because many of the movable shapes I use don't require a barre to play them.

 

I do use more movable chord forms than open chords because it allows me to change keys easier and also to make use of the entire fretboard. But chords with open strings have their place, and you can sometimes use open strings to make chord voicings that would otherwise be impossible to finger.

 

 

 

 

Next, it's not a matter of being open or movable shapes that make a chord sound 'cluttered' in a higher gain environment, but rather the note choice (or more precisely, the interval choice) in the chord voicing.

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Posted

Next, it's not a matter of being open or movable shapes that make a chord sound 'cluttered' in a higher gain environment, but rather the note choice (or more precisely, the interval choice) in the chord voicing.

 

 

Okay explain this a little more. Are you saying that if I have a chord that sound cluddered, then I should find another fingering of the same chord that wont sound as bad?

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Posted

Okay explain this a little more. Are you saying that if I have a chord that sound cluddered, then I should find another fingering of the same chord that wont sound as bad?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

As you get more overdrive on your sound, you want to make your chords simpler ( = less notes).

 

Also, perfect intervals generally work better with distortion than major or minor intervals.

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Posted

Jasco just beat me in with this ha!

 

Chords sound cluttered because the distance between the intervals is small (the distance between two notes in a scale - C to D being close, C to G being farther). With gain it amplifies the dissonance between the notes so to make it sound cleaner use less notes in your chords and/or eliminate the ones that are close together intervalically.

 

Make sense?

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Posted

As the guys said, more gain=less notes is a good idea...hence most rock/metal bands using just root/5th voicings.

 

To the OP, your teacher sounds good, stick with him/her!

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Posted

Jasco just beat me in with this ha!


Chords sound cluttered because the distance between the intervals is small (the distance between two notes in a scale - C to D being close, C to G being farther). With gain it amplifies the dissonance between the notes so to make it sound cleaner use less notes in your chords and/or eliminate the ones that are close together intervalically.


Make sense?

 

 

yeah, I get it. That's why power chords dont sound cluttered. Because they have a I and a V. two notes that are spread out on the scale.

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Posted

Exactly really a fifth is about as far away as you can get because you start going back towards the tonic note as you reach toward the octave. Although the higher the register spread the less noticeable the dissonance. Hence a 9th sounds much more settled against a root than a 2nd even though it is the same note.

 

High gain brings ALL this out. That dissonance can be really cool though. A lot of metal players like the flat five and the augmented fifth against the root - it just sounds mean with gain.

 

So experiment with different 2 note chords with gain. There's lots of great sounds in there

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Posted

whatever... you guys are wussies... it's ALL ABOUT the minor seconds with massive distortion.... either that or major sevenths.... power chords are for panzies!!!

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Posted
whatever... you guys are wussies... it's ALL ABOUT the minor seconds with massive distortion.... either that or major sevenths.... power chords are for panzies!!!



:lol:

Examples: Vernon Reid, Marc Ribot, Allan Holdsworth (ok, "Metal Fatigue"), Buckethead

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Posted

Let me say it this way... Tony Iommi (despite being a fellow lefty) is a large, sloppy, wet vagina.

nah, just kidding... He's ok... But Ozy, on the other hand.... naw.. he's alright...

However, Geezer Butler can lick my scrotum....

Seriously though, for a second... I wanted to talk about what Jasco was referencing earlier, movable chords that are not necessarily barre chords...

A thing I havea always enjoyed experimenting with (and so have Wayne Krantz, David Gilmour, Dave Matthews, John Petrucci and many many others have too) is using open strings in a "movable chord voicing"...

For instance.. you can have the open B string be your "pedal tone" (though it's not on the top or bottom necessarily... then, build a chord around it, on the high E, G and D strings.. say a mjor triad of some sort... like 5th fret on the D, 7th on the G, open B, 7th on the High E... This yields a G major and the open B is a doubled 3rd. If you move the shape up two frets, you get 7 on the D 9 on the G and 9 on the High E, with the open B... That's an Aadd9. Move it up another half step, and you get a Bb with a b9th (the open B), etc. etc. ad nauseum... The cool thing about this idea/approach is that you have this one constant that unifies the progression no matter how bizzare it may get... The common tone unites everything.. try this approach with more "colorful" and less "tertian" chords.. Use wide intervals, clusters and ambiguous tonalities, while keeping an open string as a pedal.

Fun Fun Fun.

www.myspace.com/dannyhayounakaprofessorparkinson

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Posted

You callin Tony Iommi a {censored}??


: )

 

 

I love this extended solo for his - I think you get to hear a distorted jazz chord or two (but he does turn down the gain) when he does his jazz detour around 3min:

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

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Posted

The first Sabbath record you can hear a ton of Jazz influence in his playing > rammed through an evil filter! He can play real nice when he wants to. Especially for a guy with plastic fingertips!

 

He's the man - I picked up a guitar because of him.

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Posted

First, I don't necesarily think of movable chords as barre chords, because many of the movable shapes I use don't require a barre to play them.


I do use more movable chord forms than open chords because it allows me to change keys easier and also to make use of the entire fretboard. But chords with open strings have their place, and you can sometimes use open strings to make chord voicings that would otherwise be impossible to finger.





Next, it's not a matter of being open or movable shapes that make a chord sound 'cluttered' in a higher gain environment, but rather the note choice (or more precisely, the interval choice) in the chord voicing.

 

 

 

Could you give me an example of some of those moveable chords you use??

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Posted

when i said chord shapes, it's also true for scale shapes. so if you know a riff or lick or whatever that works one place, you can get it to work in another place.
i sort of see a grid that i can shift around.

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