Members mc_carlini Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 For the past 2 hours i have been playing along to various jazz backing tracks on youtube. The good ones, i thought, were videos that had the chords in them. I did something that i have never really tried before. I am more of a rock player, but i did take a jazz class last year, so i learned how arrangements work, jazzy chords, etc. Anyways, in some of these videos, they would write the chord changes. I would play the chord once to get the feel and then arpeggiate (sp?) it and solo using the notes in that chord for the 4 counts that the chord was played. I will need to work on this more, but i am really glad i came upon this. I just thought i would let you all know and i recommend you try it out if you have not before. Here is one i really liked [YOUTUBE]fwMYWdhFhMc[/YOUTUBE]
Members Jasco Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Chord tone soloing.Now you're talkin'!
Members jeremy_green Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 This is the ticket to the big dance. All the greats do this some are just not aware of it.
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 I've just started to understand this..it was a like a light going off in my head. Instead of scales, I now "think" arpeggios..hence chords..hence more chord tones...hence more melodic playing. Hopefully!
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Wah, I just can't crack this. This is right at the point I'm at now: where I can solo with "patterns", but I need to connect with the chords, not just choose notes from patterns. BUT when I do it, it just sounds mechanical - I have this problem with using arpeggios and with "pickout the notes from the chords". If I run triplets over the scale-pattern, it sounds OK, but limiting. If I run arpeggios, it just sounds like 1-3-5 if you know what I mean. If I pick out the notes from the chords it sounds like some guy picking out notes from the chords. I just feel like I need a hint to get over this and I'll be in the big dance. Hints, anyone? GaJ Edit: wah, I want that light Mosq! _Your_ recent postings (over Slave's backings) are the "I want to be able to do that" that is driving me!
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Thanks for your kind words GaJ!.. I think the thing to focus on when playing over changes is to NAIL the chord change...lead the listener to the next chord and land on a good strong note. Quick example off the top of my head, if the chords are Amin7/D7...on the last beat of the Amin7 chord..I might play a straight Amin7 arpeggio..A C E G and then play F# as the first note of the bar on the D7...two things happening here...the F# is the 3rd of the D7 chord..so, nice and strong..and the move from G down to F# is a half step..which leads the ear nicely to the chord change...not sure if I've explained that well, hope it makes sense!
Members 1001gear Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 I've had some piano, mostly Baroque counterpoint so I've always found it easier to pick out the harmonic options than to say, correctly align a half whole scale. Doesn't require much chops either.
Members 1001gear Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Another thought. The hotter the changes, the easier it is to sound hip.
Members jeremy_green Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Honestly this is the best advice I can give to anyone learning lead - LEARN CHORDS Playing rhythm is the key to good lead playing. The better you understand chords the better you understand the neck and therefore the instrument. Remember arpeggios are just chords broken out. It took me YEARS!!!!!! to figure this nugget out. Keep at it Gaj! Time and persistence will get the job done
Members girevik Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 If I run arpeggios, it just sounds like 1-3-5 if you know what I mean. If I pick out the notes from the chords it sounds like some guy picking out notes from the chords.I just feel like I need a hint to get over this and I'll be in the big dance. Hints, anyone? Lately, I've been influenced by what horn players do. And what they do is write and practice etudes. So, try writing an etude for yourself that uses only the 1, 3, and 5 of each chord. Then practice it. Then play it against a recording of said chords. I highly recommend recording the chords yourself. Great thread on writing etudes here - athough it is jazz oriented, I think it can be applied to rock and other styles:http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=38241 At some point though, you might experience something that somebody else just reported - someone who also uses the "compose your solos" approach. It's not a "omigod now I'm awesome" experience - it's something else. We can talk about it when you get to that.
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Honestly this is the best advice I can give to anyone learning lead - LEARN CHORDS Playing rhythm is the key to good lead playing. The better you understand chords the better you understand the neck and therefore the instrument. Remember arpeggios are just chords broken out. It took me YEARS!!!!!! to figure this nugget out. Keep at it Gaj! Time and persistence will get the job done To reinforce what Jeremy says here....honestly, I think I only really got this in the last year...and I've been playing for more years than I care to mention
Members Virgman Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Wah, I just can't crack this. This is right at the point I'm at now: where I can solo with "patterns", but I need to connect with the chords, not just choose notes from patterns. BUT when I do it, it just sounds mechanical - I have this problem with using arpeggios and with "pickout the notes from the chords". If I run triplets over the scale-pattern, it sounds OK, but limiting. If I run arpeggios, it just sounds like 1-3-5 if you know what I mean. If I pick out the notes from the chords it sounds like some guy picking out notes from the chords.I just feel like I need a hint to get over this and I'll be in the big dance. Hints, anyone?GaJ Here's a hint. Take your 2-5-1 progression. It's actually more helpful to see it as a 2-5-1-6 (or a 1-6-2-5). Just keep reading. Key of G example: G-Am-Bm-C-D7-Em-F#-G The 2-5 is Am-D7. Am = D7 and D7 = Am The 1 is G. The 1-6 is G-Em. G = Em and Em = G (G = Bm too!) Think of it as 2-5 and a 1-6. You could also think of it as a 2-5-1-6 (1-6-2-5). 2-5-1-6-2-5-1-6-2-5-1-6-2-5-1-6...etc! How about a 5-1 (2-5-1-6 or 1-6-2-5). These are very common jazz progressions. Very common. In fact some jazz tunes are just continuous repetitions of these progressions with changes in key. Giant Steps is just that! The 2 and 5 are subs for each other. You can use a 2 or 5 arp as your launching point to improvise over either the 2 or 5 chord. Make up some licks for the 2-5. Not the 2 and the 5 but the 2-5. One lick over both. The 1 and 6 chords are subs for each other. When you see a 1 or a 6 you can use the 1 or 6 arp as your launching point. Make up some licks for the 1-6. Use non chord tones occasionally in your licks to make it sound hip. People will think you are cool. Make up three of each for a good start. Memorize them. Learn them in different keys! Link them together and play them over the 2-5-1 progression. Play them over a 1-6-2-5 progression. Get some jazz standards and look for these type chord progressions. Play your licks over these songs. I've simplified the process but that's basically it. Get some jazz solos by the greats and analyze them over these types of progressions. Be a copycat. Steal their licks! Imaj - iim - iiim - IVMaj - V7 - vim - dim - Imaj-R-----T----R-----T-----T----R----T-----R R = resolution ----------- R's = R's T = Tension --------- T's = T's Look at this: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2785676_lwy14/1625JoePassStyle.JPG (Don't get confused. It's 1-6-2-5. The E7b9 is subbing for the 6 chord. The second line of each set is 1-3-2-5. 3 = 1 = 6) Copy this. Send it to all your friends. Tell them to send $10 to the name on the top of the list. Put my name on top.
Members jonPhillips Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 ^^^ Jazz deconstructed. Post of the month, for sure... ^^^
Members jeremy_green Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Use non chord tones occasionally in your licks to make it sound hip. People will think you are cool. BWAA!!!!! Awesome response Virgman! Bravo!
Members girevik Posted September 1, 2009 Members Posted September 1, 2009 Good job, V-man! Since I'm getting more serious about writing my own etudes, I started looking into entry-level software for quickly creating and editing these etudes, chords symbols and all. Yeah, I could use plain old sheet music paper and pencil, but it's easier to create, save, and organize etudes in file format that can be quickly backed up. So far, I've found: Finale Notepad:http://www.finalemusic.com/notepad/ MuseScore:http://www.musescore.org/en The main advantage of Finale Notepad over the free MuseScore, from what I gather, is Notepad can generate guitar tab and MuseScore cannot.
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