Members codecontra Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 I know..... another mode question. Sorry. Let's say I want to use the A Lydian scale (A, B, C?, D?, E, F?, G?, A) to solo over some chords. What are some good chords to use to get a strong Lydian vibe going? Obviously A major and I am assuming an A major to B major vamp would work, but this is as far as I get without scratching my head. Are there certain chords that will work better or some general guidelines as to what chords work best with the Lydian scale? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you !
Poparad Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 No, that's really about it. Anything else is either not going to emphasize the presence of D# in the scale, or it's going to end up sounding like you need to resolve to E major.
Members bigboy_78 Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 Thats the thing with modal tunes, once you have a progression it stops being modal. I Didn't read all of this, but you might find it useful. Modal Progressions
Members codecontra Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Posted September 28, 2009 Would it be better to use an A major to B major vamp or an A major to B7 vamp? The B7 would add an A note to the B chord. I suppose both would work fine, but wondering if 7th chords are commonly used with the Lydian mode?
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 I was reading literally just an hour ago how Amaj7#4 is the chord for A Lydian. Which I guess could also be Amaj7#11, if you frig around with inversions? Of course, as I said, I just read this an hour ago, haven't barely scratched the surface, it's just wierd that I finish up reading this then you're asking it!? GaJ (FWIW, this is page 39 of my copy of The Jazz Theory Book, by Mark Levine, section entitled ""The Lydian Mode and the Major 7 #4 Chord" ! )
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 What I like to do is map out the scale on a fretboard diagram and then just pick clusters of notes so in A Lydian for example you get voicings like 00870X or 5 or 7...that may not be that obvious but have a real "lydian" quality
Members codecontra Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Posted September 28, 2009 I was reading literally just an hour ago how Amaj7#4 is the chord for A Lydian.Which I guess could also be Amaj7#11, if you frig around with inversions?Of course, as I said, I just read this an hour ago, haven't barely scratched the surface, it's just wierd that I finish up reading this then you're asking it!?GaJ(FWIW, this is page 39 of my copy of The Jazz Theory Book, by Mark Levine, section entitled ""The Lydian Mode and the Major 7 #4 Chord" ! ) Good stuff guys. Thank you ! BTW, how do you play a Amaj7#4 chord? I can't even find an example on-line.
Members gennation Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 The "logical" harmony of the Lydian scale is a maj#11 chord. Modern use of the Lydian scale, ala Vai/Satch/Johnson, is the add9 chord. So for A Lydian, simply play an Aadd9 chord. You can really get the "vibe" of A Lydian going by alternating between Aadd9 and Amaj7#11. Like so... ||: Aadd9 | Aadd | Aadd9 | Aadd9 | Amaj7#11 | Amaj7#11 | Amaj7#11 | Amaj7#11 :|| Try these fingerings for the progression, this is very much like Vai and Satch: Aadd9 Amaj#11E-----x-------(4 optional)B-----2--------4----G-----4--------4----D-----2--------2----A-----0--------0----E-----x--------x---- The other thing you hear these modern modal players do is some called Poly-Modal progression, where they use chords that aren't connected to one scale...a nice one for Lydian is: ||: Eadd9 | Eadd9sus#11 | Eadd9 | Eadd9sus#11 | Gadd9 | Gadd9sus#11 | Gadd9 | Gadd9sus#11 | Aadd9 | Aadd9sus#11 Aadd9 | Aadd9sus#11 | Eadd9 | Eadd9sus#11 :|| Here's a (non-finished) backing track of the progression: http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/miked/LydianAbility_Backing.mp3 For this you use E Lydian for the "E" chords, G Lydian for the "G" chords, and A Lydian for the "A" chords. So, the scale moves with the progression. Here's a few of the fingerings I use to get that Lydian vibe right in the pocket: Eadd9 E--0--B--0--G--1--D--4--A--2--E--0-- Eadd9sus#11 E--0--B--0--G--3--D--4--A--2--E--0-- Gadd9 E--0--B--0--G--2--D--0--A--x--E--3-- Gadd9sus#11 E--x--B--2--G--2--D--0--A--x--E--3-- Aadd9 E--x--B--2--G--4--D--2--A--0--E--x-- Aadd9sus#11 E--x--B--4--G--4--D--2--A--0--E--x-- If you want an application study of the Lydian scale, try these: http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Lydian/LydianPatterns1.htmhttp://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Lydian/LydianPatterns2.htmhttp://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Lydian/LydianPatterns3.htmhttp://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Lydian/LydianPatterns4.htm
Members gennation Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 Thats the thing with modal tunes, once you have a progression it stops being modal. This is true only if you have chords that are directly connected by a Diatonic scale. If your progression is full of chords that aren't connected Diatonically...you will DEFINITELY need Modes...or your own pitch collection/synthetic Mode.
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 I wonder why that example is called "polymodal". It seems to be "unimodal" to me ... one mode, with different roots in different places in the song? I would have thought polymodal meant "using lots of different modes" (just from the phrase "poly") GaJ
Members gennation Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 I wonder why that example is called "polymodal". It seems to be "unimodal" to me ... one mode, with different roots in different places in the song?I would have thought polymodal meant "using lots of different modes" (just from the phrase "poly")GaJ Regardless of the 'species" of scale, they are different scales/modes. Just write out the notes, it'll be evident. E Lydian - E F# G# A# B C# D# EG Lydian - G A B C# D E F# GA Lydian - A B C# D# E F# G# A Grouping them together enharmonically - E F# G G# A A# B C# D D# E since it's more than seven notes it's more than one mode, actually except for F and C, it's chromatic too.
Members lollygag Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 A good chord progression might be:A major, F#7 (11), F#-, D#half diminished.The F#7(11) is like an F#major chord with the high B and E strings open. or you could throw a curve ball and use a G natural to create a lydian b7 sound. the new scale would be: A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G, A.
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Members bigboy_78 Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 Good to have you back Gennation. There's been a few Mode threads lately and they haven't been the same without you.
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 28, 2009 Members Posted September 28, 2009 Good stuff guys. Thank you ! BTW, how do you play a Amaj7#4 chord? I can't even find an example on-line. So the guitar world doesn't seem to call it #4 but rather #11. I think this is because the way you typically voice these sorts of chords is to put the "sharp fourth note of the scale" note at the top of the chord, where it is functioning as a #11, not a #4. The problem of finding this online is exacerbated by the confusing notations out there for augmented chords. So for example, here is a description of the chord: http://jguitar.com/chordsearch/CM%2311 ... see how it is that they are just implying the major seventh bit of it? But sure enough the notes they give you in the basic shape are 1 3 5 7 #11 HTH GaJ BTW, I think there are two good reasons not to voice it as #4. The first is that you will have to find a fingering where you can play the #4 and the 5 at the same time: two notes a semitone apart in a chord is usually going to be tough to finger. And then when you've fingered it, you're playing two notes a semitone apart - the most dissonant way you can voice it. Must tidier to play the #4 an octave up
Members codecontra Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Posted September 28, 2009 Great info here. More than expected. Now I have to experiment with some of these ideas. Thanks, everyone !!
Members FlyingZ Posted October 2, 2009 Members Posted October 2, 2009 I like this simple A Lydian progression for jammin': A, D#dim, C#m, B7
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