Members mikey4402 Posted September 29, 2009 Members Posted September 29, 2009 I got a book called jazz improvisation for guitar:a melodic approach by garrison fewell. It talks about Melodic extensions (aka Tensions or color tones). Im having a little trouble grasping it. It says (in respect to minor triad extensions) start with a G minor triad and move up diatonically in the key of F, to include the notes F, A and C. Now im confused as to why they are using the F scale to harmonize. I would think that we would be talking about the parent scale of the chord in question (G minor in this case) and that would make sense because it would be a b3 and b7 making it F instead of F#. It then goes on to say that the G minor triad and its melodic extensions actually contain four individual chords Gm, Bb, Dm, F Thats all in the key of F and its relative minor Gm. I see that now i typed it out. Perhaps im confused at harmonizing a minor scale... but even if that's the cause of my confusion what the deal with using the F scale for G minor extensions... Do you flatten the III and the VII while at the same time change major to minor and minor to major.... major scale I ii iii IV V vi vii minor scale i II bIII iv v VI bVII Any incite would be appreciated.
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 29, 2009 Members Posted September 29, 2009 Did it really say "move up diatonically in the key of F"? Or is that an interpretation you made? It sounds wierd to me: I will be interested to hear the explanation. If I saw something telling me "to create a G minor chord, start with 1, b3, 5 then add b7" that would make perfect sense to me. F is the b7 of G, and minor seventh chords have a b7. Simple as that. Bringing the key of F into contructing a G chord seems wierd. Note that Gm is not the relative minor of F. Gm is the relative minor of Bb. GaJ
Members mikey4402 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Members Posted September 29, 2009 The direct quote isLet's Start with a G minor triad in the key of F major, and move up diationically to include the notes F, A and C. You now have two triads: Gm and F. The F major triad contains the upper extensions of G minor: F is the b7th, A is the 9th, and C is the 11th. These notes will add color to your lines and will instantly make your playing more melodic.
Members jeremy_green Posted September 29, 2009 Members Posted September 29, 2009 I suspect they are treating the Gmin chord as the II chord in the key of F and by stacking the F major triad on top of the G minor triad you get some cool extensions on the minor chord. I suspect he used a minor chord because so many guitar players associate their pentatonic scales as minor. Its not crystal clear so i understand your confusion bro
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 29, 2009 Members Posted September 29, 2009 Let's Start with a G minor triad in the key of F major, and move up diationically to include the notes F, A and C _This_ sentence _does_ make sense though, unlike the original paraphrase. Though I agree it's still clear as mud, at least it's consistent with basic chord construction theory. It may be poorly explained in the context of the book, but in general that peice of theory is pretty easy. To harmonise the second note of F major, you start on that note (which is G) and take every second note, diatonically (IE notes from the F major scale). This gives you G Bb D F A C ... Gm and it's cool extensions Gm7, Gm9, Gm11 That's not mysterious. This is one of the irritating things about reading music theory, actually. There are mysterious ways to describe things thatare actually quite basic. For example, while it's true to say that "stacking the F major triad on top of the G minor triad you get some cool extensions", which is jeremy's paraphrase of what the book is saying, the whole thing boils down to "the standard basic method of chord construction delivers some cool extensions". Standard basic chord construction (the formula I mentioned above) is much easier to see how and why it works than "ooo, look, I happen to know that F major on top of G minor does cool things". I guess the advantage of the latter might be if it helps you access it quickly (since you might know those two triads, but not know where the 9th & 11th of G are). But it brings "extra things you need to know" when you already had the knowledge to deduce the same thing. Sorry - little rant there. I'm an engineers, we like things to be orderly. Maybe if I accepted more chaos, I'd be a better musician :S GaJ
Members Jasco Posted September 30, 2009 Members Posted September 30, 2009 Jeremy has got it right as usual. As for why the author picked a ii chord to start with, one might ask: What's the most common chord progression in jazz? ii - V - I
Members 1001gear Posted September 30, 2009 Members Posted September 30, 2009 Also get to a keyboard before your brain cracks.
Members gennation Posted September 30, 2009 Members Posted September 30, 2009 It then goes on to say that the G minor triad and its melodic extensions actually contain four individual chords Gm, Bb, Dm, FThats all in the key of F and its relative minor Gm. I see that now i typed it out. This part looks like a Harmonic Extension. What you've explained points to your Gm chord being the IIm of the Key of F, or the VIm of the Key of Bb. A Gm chord built with the same pitches as F the Key of equals G Dorian. These chords, Gm, Bb, Dm, F, and the chord built off the notes in a Gm7 chord. IOW, he's building a triad from each note of Gm7 arpeggio. If you are truly going to play G Dorian, as in Modal, I can not stress how important this little chunk of information is. I don't have time to go into it right now, but these four triads are the strongest harmonies within Dorian since they are created using each note of Gm7, which is the basis of G Dorian in the first place. Vamp in Gm7 and forget G Dorian for a bit, but play nothing but those four triad arpeggios for a melody or a solo. You will be off the notes in the chord.
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