Jump to content
HAPPY NEW YEAR, TO ALL OUR HARMONY CENTRAL FORUMITES AND GUESTS!! ×

Frank Zappa's compositional style.


mthomps2

Recommended Posts

  • Members
Posted

Over the past year I've become obsessed with the music of Zappa and its even made me start to play guitar again after giving up for a while. I own about 20 of his albums and I try to listen to at least a full one each day.

 

All I can get so far from picking apart the songs and from research is that Zappa loved sus2 chords, chromatic abrupt changes, and poly rhythms. The melodies and underlying harmonies to most of his music seems so rich and colorful that the complexity of it overwhelms me. The melodies he creates are the most beautiful things I've ever heard.

 

What I'm hoping to get is a discussion about his composing style (which includes his guitar soloing style of course) and his characteristic sounds and cliches.

  • Members
Posted

it is worth mentioning that Zappa had a huge thing for 4ths in his melodies and harmonies. his biggest compositional method has to be "anything at any time for any reason at all" in Frank's own words.

  • Members
Posted

Yeah, I'm aware of AAFNRAA. You know the main theme from 'dog breath variations/uncle meat?'

 

That has that Zappa sound to it. Its a melody that's popped up quite a few times in his conceptual continuity. I was hoping for maybe a tab of the outline of that sort of thing and maybe some analysis of it.

 

 

Hell take a theme, for example the main melody to "Strictly Genteel", and throughout the piece he warps it until it sounds super dissonant, sometimes bringing you back, sometimes taking you out.

 

 

 

One specific question I have would be when he does that is he altering the harmony or melody or both depending on which time he returns to that theme?

  • Members
Posted

Not sure exactly the device you're referring too. For me that piece muds out into dull repetition of the cheesy passage and the next 'hot' variation. To be sure Zappa is very score specific and very unique. Musically (big word) it just doesn't present anything more than a medley of 'the next idea' ideas.

  • Members
Posted

I happen to love Frank Zappa and his music very much nad like to think that in some small way my music is inspired and influenced by his and that, of course, it bears a BIT of a resembelance to his... I haven't really explored the sus.2 thing in my compositions yet (at least not nearly as extensively as he did) but it is true, he loves that sound.... and he uses it freely of any sort of diatonicism... Constant structure style, in keeping with the melodic contours of a piece. I do like to use fourths in my melodies quite a bit... Go on my page and check out a few pieces... Paradigm is like an acid jazz meets Zappa type melody.... Fear and Trembling has the signature Zappa Marimba sound, but with more of an ominous Mr. Bungle overtone to it.... Unity (Opus I) is a modern classical piece which I wrote using tone rows and encoding rhythms from a poem I wrote into Morse Code... This one is very Zappa-Like.... (to me, at least...) It also goes very well with any animation... mmmmmm hmmmmmm....

 

Anyway, There are many websites that discuss Zappa's music in excruciating detail.. You should seek these sites out and enjoy the breakdowns people have submitted.....

 

www.myspace.com/dannyhayounakaprofessorparkinson

 

Peace,

 

Danny

  • Members
Posted

 

Not sure exactly the device you're referring too. For me that piece muds out into dull repetition of the cheesy passage and the next 'hot' variation. To be sure Zappa is very score specific and very unique. Musically (big word) it just doesn't present anything more than a medley of 'the next idea' ideas.

 

 

It's not for everyone, that's for sure. The reasons you say you don't like it are the exact reasons I do like it. Anything, Anytime, For No Reason At All.

 

He was a literal master at all styles of composing and could write within the idioms of certain styles authentically, and he would change in and out of these respective styles at the start of a new bar.

 

meganutt7, would you be so kind as to direct me to a couple of them? The only one I have found that is worth a {censored} is this one:

 

http://www.zappa-analysis.com/browntxt.htm

  • Members
Posted

Very talented; Pierre Boulez even acknowledged Zappa. Still, people use the word master too liberally. I'd think master of no styles is more likely. Well his - given it IS the genre. The way I see it, it's one thing to essentially cut and paste 20 minutes of collage and a whole nuther to make 20 minutes work musically.

  • Members
Posted

I always loved that zappa tune as well ...valley girl was great...moon was a real talent...I thought her dad also as a musician...anyone know anything about him...didnt know moon was such a composer...what albums did she do?:confused:

  • Members
Posted

I'm realley pleased and excited to see someone bring up FZ. I'm a huge fan myself.

 

Something that I know about Zappa from the man himself (via interviews) he hated chord changes. He preferred what he called "harmonic climates" implied chord changes and tonalities.

 

He was also a frustrated drummer and percussionist.

 

What has been the most enlightening and instructive for me has been to study his influences. I'm a big fan of Stravinsky to begin with, add to that Edgar Varese, Stockhausen, Charles Ives and Anton Webern. Then consider his blues, doo-wop and fifties pop influences and a picture begins to emerge.....

 

Thanks for bringing up Frank.

 

You might want to check out the Frank Zappa traders group on the Yahoo groups mailing list.

  • Members
Posted

 

Very talented; Pierre Boulez even acknowledged Zappa. Still, people use the word master too liberally. I'd think master of no styles is more likely. Well his - given it IS the genre. The way I see it, it's one thing to essentially cut and paste 20 minutes of collage and a whole nuther to make 20 minutes work musically.

 

 

I'm willing to bet there is not a composer in the 20th century who is as familiar with musical forms and composing authentically in those forms as Frank Zappa. Further, he constantly rearranged his own tunes, molding them to suit his current band as needed. He had them trained to the point that live, on a stage in front of thousands, he could give a hand gesture and the entire band would take the piece they are playing and morph it into another genre along with its genre specific cliche's.

 

As far as the technical side, Zappa was a master of tape splicing before digital technology. He would take tunes one of his band played 20 years before and splice it together with an ending of the same tune one if his more recent bands played. Seamlessly. He recorded everything at every concert and collected thousands of tapes to work with.

 

Now, yes, the splicing is a different ball game than one performance of the same piece, but you have to look at what he had to work with economically.

 

He financed his entire operation. The first couple of years he was with MGM and after they continually {censored}ed him over he did the whole entire thing on his own with his own money. Its one thing to have an unlimited budget to get everything juuusssttt riiighhht in the studio, but when you don't you need to resort to other means.

 

And of course there are examples of long compositions without any editing work. Just take a look at Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo. Those two albums were recorded with a 20 piece big band, live, with minimal or no overdubs.

  • Members
Posted

And of course there are examples of long compositions without any editing work. Just take a look at Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo. Those two albums were recorded with a 20 piece big band, live, with minimal or no overdubs.

 

Amazom had "The Grand Wazoo" for a like half off for a while, but I waited and

it went back up :facepalm:

  • Members
Posted

 

And of course there are examples of long compositions without any editing work. Just take a look at Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo. Those two albums were recorded with a 20 piece big band, live, with minimal or no overdubs.

 

 

The list of proofs to Zappa's genius is long, and what's more I'm not going to try and convince anyone. Either one sees it, or they don't.

 

I love the two albums you've mentioned above mthomps, and of course keeping in mind that those albums were played from written scores. There wasn't any of the rock-n-roll 'winging it' going on. Zappa couldn't afford it. Then we should also remember the Wazoo band playing these and other very complicated pieces live. And what about the guy's guitar playing? Idiosyncratic in the best possible sense of the word.

  • Members
Posted

 

I'm willing to bet there is not a composer in the 20th century who is as familiar with musical forms and composing authentically in those forms as Frank Zappa. Further, he constantly rearranged his own tunes, molding them to suit his current band as needed. He had them trained to the point that live, on a stage in front of thousands, he could give a hand gesture and the entire band would take the piece they are playing and morph it into another genre along with its genre specific cliche's.


As far as the technical side, Zappa was a master of tape splicing before digital technology. He would take tunes one of his band played 20 years before and splice it together with an ending of the same tune one if his more recent bands played. Seamlessly. He recorded everything at every concert and collected thousands of tapes to work with.


Now, yes, the splicing is a different ball game than one performance of the same piece, but you have to look at what he had to work with economically.


He financed his entire operation. The first couple of years he was with MGM and after they continually {censored}ed him over he did the whole entire thing on his own with his own money. Its one thing to have an unlimited budget to get everything juuusssttt riiighhht in the studio, but when you don't you need to resort to other means.


And of course there are examples of long compositions without any editing work. Just take a look at Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo. Those two albums were recorded with a 20 piece big band, live, with minimal or no overdubs.

 

 

Yes no doubt. 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. Prolific output. I won't argue your devotion.

As to the cut and paste reference, that's how his pieces transpire - live or what. lol.

  • Members
Posted

Yes no doubt. 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. Prolific output. I won't argue your devotion.

As to the cut and paste reference, that's how his pieces transpire - live or what. lol.

 

Haha. Ok, I see that now. And here I am going off on a tangent about the guys tape splicing abilities. :facepalm:

 

But yeah, If thats what it is to you then that's just what it is to you. Like Darell Curtis said there is no point to try to convince.

 

I do however think multiple attentive listenings to albums which are the closest to whatever it is you like would open you up a couple levels to his overall "sound".

 

-----

I do love his guitar playing. There is no other guitar player who plays things like that. You don't hear about this guy or that guy having Zappa as a huge guitar influence. Most people couldn't understand what it was or how to do it. He naturally just played in poly rhythmic time. A good example of this type of stuff are the guitar solos on the Sheik Yerbouti (pronounced 'shake your booty'), Tinsel Town Rebellion, and YCDTOSA* Vol. 6. The track called thirteen on this is phenomenal.

 

There's a part in "The Real Frank Zappa Book" where he talks about his guitar playing. About how he really wasn't all that technically proficient at it and how he still had to look down when he played. That shit always makes me smile.

 

One of my favorite lines of the book is when he goes (and I'm paraphrasing) "A lot of people look at playing the guitar like there is more to it than there actually is, like there is some mystical element to getting what you want out of it"

 

The guy had a 'sound'. Not just on a guitar or with this band or that band. Not a specific timbre, but if you heard any one of his tracks you just kinda know its him. That's what I was originally hoping to get out of this thread actually. A discussion on that "Zappa Sound".

 

Its really good to get to talk about him though. Real life friends don't get it, and even kind of cringe when I put him on. I make 'em all listen though :cool: Every now and then I get someone who hears something I put on and likes it. And that brings us full circle into that whole you either get it and like it or it sounds like random sections pasted together debate.

 

My favorite track of his is Sinister Footwear 2nd movement, the 88' 12 piece big band version on Make a Jazz Noise Here. Runner ups include 'dog breath variations/uncle meat' and 'for calvin(and his next to two hitchhikers)'

 

That last one For Calvin(And His Next Two Hitchikers) is actually on the Grand Wazoo. It is one of the most peculiar sounding things I've ever heard. It is beauty at its finest.

  • Members
Posted

I think Zappa is a wealth of raw material. I can't think of any other music with such a variety of ear catching moments. Maybe will come the composer or three that can craft this ore.

  • Members
Posted

 

I do love his guitar playing. There is no other guitar player who plays things like that. You don't hear about this guy or that guy having Zappa as a huge guitar influence.

 

 

Ron Thal?

Mattias IA Eklundh/

Vai?

 

I find some of Zappa's vibe and humor in their music.

  • Members
Posted

so i listened to "the adventures of greggory peccory" for the first time last night, and it pretty well blew my mind. holy crap, that thing is amazing!!! i noticed a BUNCH of parts from other zappa songs, from the black page to don't eat the yellow snow.

  • Members
Posted

 

so i listened to "the adventures of greggory peccory" for the first time last night, and it pretty well blew my mind. holy crap, that thing is amazing!!! i noticed a BUNCH of parts from other zappa songs, from the black page to don't eat the yellow snow.

 

 

greggory peccary is FZ's 9th symphony: a masterpiece.

  • Members
Posted

http://www.zappa-analysis.com/index.html

 

This is the only one I think is amazingly good and detailed... It has many different excerpts from different periods in Zappa's musical development.

 

Also, you can buy tab books for Apostrophe and I think the one for We're Only In It For The Money should have come out recently.... Also there is that DVD for Classic Albums detailing Apostrophe which has some insight... Of course, there are countless interviews as well, almost all of which are now available through Youtube....

 

I think the most important part of it is listening and trying to extrapolate your own thing from it....

 

www.myspace.com/dannyhayounakaprofessorparkinson

  • Members
Posted

Zappa's guitar playing was loud and beautifully amplified. Steve Vai commented that when Frank tore into a solo, the stage seemed to lift off like a 747 taking off and the sound was like Godzilla vs Mothra. He also commented that Frank's playing was absolutely fearless with very masculine phrasing.

 

Of course, I paraphrase because I am too lazy to look up the source right now.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...