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I Hope this isn't a Stupid Question but...


Muckbound

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Posted

I know the minor scale is 1,2,3b,4,5,6b,7b,8

The harmonic minor scale is 1,2,3b,4,5,6b,7,8

 

My question is this: Why is the second scale called harmonic minor? Is it just a name?

I have been going through the sticky lessons in this forum and there is so much information. I haven't come across one yet that explains the reasoning behind the terminology.

For example why isn't the minor scale a harmonic scale and vise versa?

I talked with a friend who knows his theory well and he said "that's just the way it is". I am the kind of person that understands better if I know why something is what it is. :confused:

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Posted

Someone WILL step in to correct me but I always think of the melodic minor as the natural minor scale altered such that the V chord is major (hence the leading tone / major 3rd of the V chord) rather than a minor chord as is diatonic to the natural minor scale.

 

The reasoning behind this is that the major V chord provides a stronger (harmonic) resolution to the Imin than a minor V chord would (because there would be no leading tone). The natural minor is a harmonizable scale.

 

All of the minor scale variations - are (pardon the double use) variations on a theme.

The Natural minor - 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1 - is the standard, used over the I min chord and any chord diatonic to the natural minor.

The Harmonic minor - 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 2 - is used over the Vdom7 chord and any chord diatonic to the Hamonic minor.

The Melodic minor - 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 - provides even more "majorness" to the options of what you can use in a minor key - providing for a IV major chord and a V major chord.

 

Don't worry too much about names, in this case or in general - just concentrate on the sounds and you'll be able to come up with logic that supports almost anything.

 

cheers,

Posted

The strongest progression in major keys is the V -> I progression. All of Western music is more or less built around that sound. In the key of C, that would be a G -> C progression. To intensify it, try G7 -> C.

 

When in a minor key, if you try the same V -> I progression using the chords of the natural minor scale, you get a minor chord moving to another minor chord, which isn't the strongest sounding progression. It works, but it's not as strong in resolution as the major version. In A minor, it would be Em -> Am.

 

Another way of looking at it:

 

Play the major scale, but stop on the 7th note and hold it a second, and then play the last note. Very strong resolution. Do the same with the natural minor scale, and again, it still kind of wants to resolve, but nowhere near as strongly as the major scale.

 

Now, let's change the V chord into a major or dominant 7th chord like it is in major. In A minor, that would result in an E -> Am or E7 -> Am progression. Very strong, just like the major key version. The note that changes to create the new harmony is the 7th note of the scale. Try now playing the first seven notes of the harmonic minor scale, pausing on the 7th, and then play the last note. A very strong resolution.

 

The harmonic minor scale is named as such because of the harmony that it creates. Or rather, the scale is the result of the harmony used in minor keys.

 

Likewise, the melodic minor scale has its origins in melody. The harmonic minor scale has that awkward leap between the b6 and 7 scale degrees, and is both difficult to sing and strange to hear. To smooth this out, classical composers would change the b6 to a natural 6, eliminating the strange leap, while keeping the natural 7 of the harmonic minor scale (and thus keeping the major V chord).

 

Ironically, in modern usage (jazz, rock), melodic minor is used not for it's melodic construction but because of the harmonies it creates, just the same as the harmonic minor scale. So in a sense, it's harmonic minor part II.

 

I tend to think of minor keys has having a "natural/harmonic minor" switch that gets thrown depending on the chord. Most of the time, a song in a minor key uses the natural minor scale, but when the V chord shows up, the harmonic minor switch gets turned on, and that's the scale used for melodies (or melodic minor as an alternative, although there are more situations where melodic minor can also be used). When the progression moves onto another chord, the switch gets turned off and it's back to natural minor.

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Posted

Wow, these are amazing answers. I never even thought of wikepedia.
Now, I can record a simple chord progression and play these scales with it. I'll focus on holding that seventh note. I think I'll get an even better understanding when I can hear the harmony and feel the similarities. Probably be a lot of trial and error but I will get it.
Thanks for throwing in the melodic minor for me Jed.:thu:

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Posted

So I have been writing out and practicing the melodic scales and it was going okay. While checking out some sites, I stumbled on one that said the melodic minor scale only applies when ascending. Descending the scale goes back to the natural minor. Why can you not descend the same way you ascended? And what do you do when you mix up the order of the scale. You know if you want to just jam the scale and see what you come up with. :confused:

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Posted

It has to do with the leading tone. Since in a minor key it almost has to be the third of the V or V7 chord, it must resolve up. In order for a line to descend the the 7th of the scale has to be in it's lowered state.

Posted
So I have been writing out and practicing the melodic scales and it was going okay. While checking out some sites, I stumbled on one that said the melodic minor scale only applies when ascending. Descending the scale goes back to the natural minor. Why can you not descend the same way you ascended? And what do you do when you mix up the order of the scale. You know if you want to just jam the scale and see what you come up with.
:confused:



That's an old practice in classical music. When going up the scale and resolving to the tonic (that's the important part!), you play a natural 6 and natural 7. The halfstep between 7 and 8 resolves very strongly. However, if you're going down the scale and your goal is to reach the 5th note of the scale, then you use the normal natural minor scale. This puts a halfstep between b6 and 5, which again resolves very strongly, only downwards this time.

Which one you should use is mostly determined by which note you choose as your goal: the tonic or the 5th. So even if you mix up the order of the notes, or change directions, what your final goal is going to be is what's important. Here are a couple examples in A minor:



If you're sticking to traditional classical rules, when on the E7 chord, if you use the b6 you have to avoid the natural 7 to avoid the leap between the notes. In other words, if you use the natural 7, you basically need to also use the natural 6. If you avoid the natural 7, you can stick with the b6.

When the chord isn't E7, then there's no issue with the 7th and natural minor is fine.

That said, in more modern applications, melodic minor is played the same way both ascending and descending. As I stated in my previous post, in modern usage (primarily jazz), the melodic minor is chosen for the harmony it creates, just like harmonic minor. Therefore, you wouldn't want to be changing the notes of the scale around because that would change the harmony.

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