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How to apply vibrato to a bend?


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Posted

So my technique sucks, mostly I think I've spent 10 years of playing with people who are worse than I am (which says more about the terrible players I've played with than my talent) so its hard to pick up new things unless I'm really motivated. Well I'm starting to get frustrated by the way I sound, bends/vibrato in particular.

 

How do I apply finger vibrato to a note I bend up to? Lets say a whole step bend, lots of tension on that string, doesn't seem to wiggle very much. Thoughts?

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Posted

I've always found this technique hard to explain over text. But...

 

If you have vibrato already, it can be as simple as just getting your hand in position to use vibrato after the note is bend. But that isn't always easy to do at first.

 

This is similar to what I teach...(although in person it's a much better explanation)...

 

Turn up some distortion and try and get some feedback going. Then make a fairly slow whole step bend and hold it. Once you get it feeding back a bit, or even just sustaining, bring the bend down slightly just so it detunes, then slowly bring it back up to the correct pitch. Then keep repeating this process.

 

As time goes by you'll develop great control over that exercise as the note is bent. This is where the feedback comes in...as feedback can make you do things you might not do other wise...

 

If you can get some nice feedback going for EACH spot in the bend (the full bend and the slightly detuned bend) you'll almost by default start to try and go between the notes faster, up to the point of just (using GaJ's term) wiggling it.

 

By wiggling it you'll end up decreasing the detuned bend making it a full bend and a near full bend.

 

Just keep practicing it.

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Posted

wiggle it more
:)

Look at Paul Glibert's bending and vibrato lesson (find that at the guitar leson guide, in my sig)


GaJ

 

It feels too "tight" or like there is too much tension on the string to wiggle it more :idk:

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Posted

Here's the thing, vibrato is one of the last things to develop in beginning to intermediate players. To me it is the mark of a seasoned one. Most of it has to do with hand strength and control.

 

So let me ask 2 questions:

How much do you play?

How much of that playing time have you spent working on this issue?

 

Tricks?

-Gennation gave you some great insight and ideas

-Maybe switch to some lighter gauge strings for a bit then work your way back

 

A lot of players try to use their fingers alone to get this ... its more of a rocking of the forearm. Hard to describe... let me try ... hold your hand in front of your face. Palm in. Without moving your arm turn your hand around palm out. Go back and forth - this rotation of the forearm is where it often comes from. Put your hand in the shape of an imaginary guitar neck and continue rotating back and forth ... make the motion smaller and faster... see what i am getting at. Now put the guitar in your hand and do the same movement pivoting around the index finger as you grab a string with your third finger.

 

Not sure if I helped

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Posted

It feels too "tight" or like there is too much tension on the string to wiggle it more
:idk:

 

Start with wiggling it in the "downwards" direction: let it go a little back the direction that it's pushing against your fingers. Then push it back up again, but just go a bit further :)

 

You need that extra strength to be able to do the 3 semitone bend you know you're going to want at some point, anyhow ;)

 

GaJ

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Posted

Jeremy and Mike gave you great advice. The only thing I can add is watch, listen and learn old Angus Young solos. Not particularly hard to play, but his vibrato is badass.

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Posted

Here's the thing, vibrato is one of the last things to develop in beginning to intermediate players. To me it is the mark of a seasoned one. Most of it has to do with hand strength and control.


So let me ask 2 questions:

How much do you play?

How much of that playing time have you spent working on this issue?


Tricks?

-Gennation gave you some great insight and ideas

-Maybe switch to some lighter gauge strings for a bit then work your way back


A lot of players try to use their fingers alone to get this ... its more of a rocking of the forearm. Hard to describe... let me try ... hold your hand in front of your face. Palm in. Without moving your arm turn your hand around palm out. Go back and forth - this rotation of the forearm is where it often comes from. Put your hand in the shape of an imaginary guitar neck and continue rotating back and forth ... make the motion smaller and faster... see what i am getting at. Now put the guitar in your hand and do the same movement pivoting around the index finger as you grab a string with your third finger.


Not sure if I helped

 

That's a really good description!..I was trying to imagine how I'd describe it and got as far as turning a door knob..:lol:..but yours is a lot clearer.

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Posted

 

Here's the thing, vibrato is one of the last things to develop in beginning to intermediate players. To me it is the mark of a seasoned one. Most of it has to do with hand strength and control.


So let me ask 2 questions:

How much do you play?

How much of that playing time have you spent working on this issue?


Tricks?

-Gennation gave you some great insight and ideas

-Maybe switch to some lighter gauge strings for a bit then work your way back


A lot of players try to use their fingers alone to get this ... its more of a rocking of the forearm. Hard to describe... let me try ... hold your hand in front of your face. Palm in. Without moving your arm turn your hand around palm out. Go back and forth - this rotation of the forearm is where it often comes from. Put your hand in the shape of an imaginary guitar neck and continue rotating back and forth ... make the motion smaller and faster... see what i am getting at. Now put the guitar in your hand and do the same movement pivoting around the index finger as you grab a string with your third finger.


Not sure if I helped

 

 

As for your questions, I probably play 4 hours a week or so, sometimes 5-6. I used to play a ton more, but real life happened, and here I am.

 

How long have I been trying to do it? Not that long at all, but I wanted to make sure I was doing it right before I learned a bad habit.

 

Nice description, sounds like a very controlled and smaller version of a string bend. This is very helpful.

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Posted

Practicing again today and noticing I am tense/press down too hard when I bend. I think this may be combination of I just play too hard in general, and I may have learned to bend improperly. I feel like I use my wrist to get most of the bending done, and use my fingers to adjust pitch, is this correct or should the whole thing be in the wrist/forearm?

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Posted

I tend to overuse this technique a lot, which I like so pphhht.

 

I've never had a problem but I can see if you tense up on your bending (up or down) your muscles are too tight to allow you to wiggle the heck out of it.

 

How about detuning a 1/2 step and trying it...

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Posted

 

Practicing again today and noticing I am tense/press down too hard when I bend. I think this may be combination of I just play too hard in general, and I may have learned to bend improperly. I feel like I use my wrist to get most of the bending done, and use my fingers to adjust pitch, is this correct or should the whole thing be in the wrist/forearm?

 

 

No its a combination wrist and fingers... of course if you are squeezing tight you are fighting against yourself. Be aware of your tensions and work to not do that. Make sure when you are fretting a not that your fingetip is just behind the fretwire - not in the middle of the fret. Proper placement makes for less required pressure.

 

Oh - and play more. Lots more : )

 

Seriously though just keep working at it. Try lighter strings or detune for a bit. Make it a part of EVERY practice routine for a bit. If you have no practice "routine" make one. Like anything in life without a plan random things improve... with a plan specific things improve. If you are trying to change your playing the latter is required.

 

Good luck!

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Posted

Thanks for the awesome suggestions so far guys. Any songs/exercises that you can recommend that are fun and help me learn the technique at the same time?

 

For example, I was working on Jimi's "The Wind Cries Mary" from justinguitar's videos and really learned a lot of good shapes to incorporate more double stops and simple chords into my "lead" playing. Very helpful.

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Posted

first of all, learn to vibrato on an unbent string first if you haven't already.

 

3 important things to note about vibrato on a bent string:

 

- there's more tension on a bent string

- the tension is heavier in one direction lighter in the other.

- when you reach target note, you have access to both the sharp and flat side of the note with your vibrato

 

the first 2 are significant adjustments physically. the string wants to release towards the direction you bent it from, and is more reluctant to continue in the direction you're bending towards, so you have to counterbalance this with your ears as a guide. more pressure on the bend, less give on the release.

 

vibrato on an unbent string moves between the original note and the original note sharped to a variable degree. with vibrato alone you don't have access to the flattened register of the original note. there are some tricks to access it on a floating/halfFloating bridge by adding pressure to unplayed strings to make the bridge depress to flatten the original note, or of course just use the whammy bar.

 

lots of repetition - excellent vibrato is the mark of a seasoned player. practice regularly and the results develop over time.

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Posted

Well the good news is that I have what I'd call a decent vibrato developing on unbent notes. It sounds good, but I don't have very much speed on it yet, which may or may not be a good thing based on some players I've heard :poke: :cop:

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Posted

 

Practicing again today and noticing I am tense/press down too hard when I bend. I think this may be combination of I just play too hard in general, and I may have learned to bend improperly. I feel like I use my wrist to get most of the bending done, and use my fingers to adjust pitch, is this correct or should the whole thing be in the wrist/forearm?

 

 

Use only as much pressure as is required to sound the note. You'll find that it's a lot less than you think. Then it's much easier to do vibrato (esp on bent notes).

 

I use at least three different vibrato techniques.

- wrist/forearm technique (explaned above). Great general purpose vibrato.

- finger only (where you shake the whole guitar ala Clapton/Gibbons and the hand doesn't touch the neck)

- gripping motion with just the fingers (when you do a fast vibrato on a short-duration note)

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Posted

 

Use only as much pressure as is required to sound the note. You'll find that it's a lot less than you think. Then it's much easier to do vibrato (esp on bent notes).


I use at least three different vibrato techniques.

- wrist/forearm technique (explaned above). Great general purpose vibrato.

- finger only (where you shake the whole guitar ala Clapton/Gibbons and the hand doesn't touch the neck)

- gripping motion with just the fingers (when you do a fast vibrato on a short-duration note)

 

 

Right. Allow as little friction against the fret as possible when doing bends or vibrato. Put all the effort into the bend or the vibrato action, not into the fret. That will also prolong the life of your frets.

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Posted

Out of curiosity, was there something wrong with my suggestions?


GaJ

 

Nah, not at all. I just really found their ability to articulate something that I can't remember how I figured out how to do very insightful. Had I had a problem with your advice, I would have said:

 

"Jeremy and Mike gave great advice and ignore everything that GaJ said"

 

:lol:

 

Of course I'm kidding.

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Posted

 

Full step bend vibratos are not easy....especialy with 10s/11s...

 

 

this is how your hands get stronger though and 9s i think the tone is not as good

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Posted

Vibrato definitely is one of the last things to develop.. I spent so much time on technique and neglected it for the longest time. I've devote alot more time to it these days.

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